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Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2016 00:08:51 +0700
Message-ID: <CAEZPtU5T6HnbmNYu0qHBax0SoS+OxnutZZ=fWTquRJt5=pom0g@mail.gmail.com>
To: Derick Rethans <derick@php.net>
Cc: Adam Harvey <aharvey@php.net>, Stas Malyshev <smalyshev@gmail.com>, 
	=?UTF-8?Q?Fran=C3=A7ois_Laupretre?= <francois@php.net>, 
	PHP internals <internals@lists.php.net>, Zeev Suraski <zeev@zend.com>, 
	Peter Lind <peter.e.lind@gmail.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11360218bc57670528994a1a
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] [Draft] Adopt Code of Conduct
From: pierre.php@gmail.com (Pierre Joye)

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On Jan 5, 2016 11:13 PM, "Derick Rethans" <derick@php.net> wrote:
>
> On Tue, 5 Jan 2016, Fran=C3=A7ois Laupretre wrote:
>
> > Le 05/01/2016 15:31, Peter Lind a =C3=A9crit :
> >
> > > A quick question: suppose you're from a minority group, and you've
been the
> > > target of abuse previously your life. You now join the PHP community
and for
> > > whatever reason, someone takes a dislike to you and starts harassing
you in
> > > private. The abuse makes use of the same stuff you've been through
before,
> > > and because this is a real douchebag, some very humiliating things ar=
e
> > > thrown in for good measure. How exactly would you feel about having
all of
> > > this made explicit to all the other PHP devs? Presumably you look up
to some
> > > of these people - would your first thought be "Oh I know! I'll post
all this
> > > nasty stuff to a public mailing list, that is archived on the web
where
> > > EVERYONE can see all the humiliation coming my way - and where google
is
> > > sure to pick up all these things about me!"? If you happen to belong
to a
> > > minority group that often is at the receiving end of abuse, what
would you
> > > think if this was the message being sent? Would you expect to be
understood
> > > by your peers, or would their concern about being possibly accused of
> > > something seem like an out-of-hand rejection? Regards Peter
> >
> > You're probably right but that all sounds too 'american' to me. These
> > questions of 'minority group' refer to a multi-cultural situation that
is
> > totally foreign to my culture. But I understand it may be an important
concern
> > for others.
>
> It doesn't even have to be a minority group:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DV4UWxlVvT1A
>
> > Anyway, I don't say that it cannot happen, I just say that, AFAIK, we
> > never got such concerns in the PHP community.
>
> Sorry - not true. I can name several issues from various PHP related
> conferences. Although not directly under the "control" of the PHP
> developers team (and hence not influenced by a proposed CoC), they're
> certainly part of the community.

Same here. And in the core as well. Even relatively recently.

I would love to see more focus on how to make this out in a fork we can all
agree on instead of arguing about the rights of one or the other, all
parties will have the same rights. Or to argue about whether such bad event
can happen or not. It will too late to do it when it will happen again.
This alone is a good enough reason to do it, now.

About anonymity, it is also critical during the whole investigation and
afterwards. The reasons are rather obvious for both parties and have been
explained here.

A quick but well thought reaction is vital. In case of an harassment, the
group can take measure and "officially" request to stop any private contact
with the victim. Whether the accused person is guilty or not is not
relevant at this stage. It will help to protect both parties.

I am also convinced that we need one  now more than ever before. Not
because we have more issues (or less) but because we are in a position now
to actually setup such CoC in a good way. And we are also the leading web
programming language. We must ensure that we act accordingly. I also trust
us to have the structure to manage such situations in a fair manner.

Cheers,
Pierre

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