Newsgroups: php.internals
Path: news.php.net
Xref: news.php.net php.internals:90052
Mailing-List: contact internals-help@lists.php.net; run by ezmlm
Received-SPF: pass (pb1.pair.com: domain gmail.com designates 209.85.214.195 as permitted sender)
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <CAEZPtU7oGLr0VScRHcFPuqmgv=+oZuiaKMvptk7iy_AuVZ56wg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAyV7nFbngZ42qzbSFyveH+vsyir9QNtMJq8H=u9VqTBVBv5Og@mail.gmail.com>
	<568AE803.1080209@gmail.com>
	<568B0C8E.3080206@eliw.com>
	<CAEZPtU6oKG1aHWCb2YUFXPv5bU1E16w__QDZ2HmV-q_KRSceqQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<568B1041.1060601@gmail.com>
	<CAEZPtU7dpgh65Nzs61wPmckvPx4sfT4y+8P3fAfJoLyQfb5mxw@mail.gmail.com>
	<568B1DA8.3060908@gmail.com>
	<CADajX4Aur47K4_TnkhScUw6RfA+1LMoDi3JKT9zc0oGJ0EiaAQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<568B210A.9050103@gmail.com>
	<CAAqcDMgJdt-dSg8xzpPz7sObrosCFh49nMOX+4AgqYbzsCDVSA@mail.gmail.com>
	<A3C2C7EF-66C9-4FD4-B4E7-086C8C362DDF@gmail.com>
	<CAEYWF=7NjuuVRzkxa0bZGeKc4heYWbFCNR59PFVLH96hTyRdUg@mail.gmail.com>
	<10889178-A15C-4B28-85CC-C1E5AB08E952@gmail.com>
	<CAEZPtU7oGLr0VScRHcFPuqmgv=+oZuiaKMvptk7iy_AuVZ56wg@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2016 11:10:34 +0700
Message-ID: <CAEZPtU6MS2U+3fN6gb59Hu6z65iLm88s+7OEBEXZjqzGDeFNGg@mail.gmail.com>
To: "Paul M. Jones" <pmjones88@gmail.com>
Cc: Bishop Bettini <bishop@php.net>, Michael Cullum <m@michaelcullum.com>, 
	PHP internals <internals@lists.php.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] [Draft] Adopt Code of Conduct
From: pierre.php@gmail.com (Pierre Joye)

On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 11:00 AM, Pierre Joye <pierre.php@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 10:47 AM, Paul M. Jones <pmjones88@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Jan 4, 2016, at 21:22, Bishop Bettini <bishop@php.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> Every long standing collaborative system adopts, uses, and sheds rules of conduct to suit its real and perceived challenges.
>>
>> Including the one headed by Linus Torvalds, right? (/me rolls eyes)
>>
>> I don't know which is worse: that this is being discussed in the first place, or that there are so many willing volunteer speech police around to support it.
>
> What is worst is seeing someone using an example of a person referring
> to abortions, sexual comments related to "stop the breed" and other
> disgusting things as an example of why we should not have a CoC. That
> and the fascist comparison makes me wonder a lot about his values. May
> I suggest you to bring constructive arguments into the game instead? I
> got what you consider as a limitation of free speech. I think many
> already explained why it is not about free speech but protection and
> about confirm and ensure a safe context, given you understand what
> "safe" means here. Hopefully.

And let me be crystal clear here about my view before I stand back
until the RFC is getting more complete.

For one, as much as I dislike bad behaviors, I do not mind it when I
am the target. I was myself quite pushy from time to time while trying
to stay polite (and failed on IRC from time to time). Our RFCs process
improve things a lot by reducing the heat of sterile and frustrating
discussions on internals.

I did not mind either someone telling me I am stupid (for the nicer
version of some of the descriptions I was honored to get) for doing
this or that while providing a patch.

But the thing is not that simple. I am not alone. What you define in a
very disrespectful way as "poor little hurt" is matter of mutual
respects. I known environments where you can be fired to act like
this, even during internal meetings. And this is totally fine. The
base of mutual respect is to create a common base, a compromise where
everyone will feel comfortable within decent limits. Common sense
applies and is highly required in a multi cultural (and without much
direct contacts but email) like the php.net project. This is why
having a CoC, while having little of this kind of problems lately, is
a very good thing as a message. A message telling anyone new that it
is a friendly environment and that this person won't be left alone if
something bad happens.


Cheers,
-- 
Pierre

@pierrejoye | http://www.libgd.org