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Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2015 14:38:44 +0200
Message-ID: <af6002e645030b18c3348a136d3769a3@mail.gmail.com>
To: Ferenc Kovacs <tyra3l@gmail.com>
Cc: PHP Internals <internals@lists.php.net>
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Subject: RE: [PHP-DEV] PHP 7.0.0 final RTM delay
From: zeev@zend.com (Zeev Suraski)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ferenc Kovacs [mailto:tyra3l@gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2015 2:25 PM
> To: Zeev Suraski
> Cc: Anatol Belski; Sebastian Bergmann; PHP Internals
> Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP 7.0.0 final RTM delay
>
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 3, 2015 at 1:08 PM, Zeev Suraski <zeev@zend.com> wrote:
>
>
> 	> My red wine is already cooling for two days, your preferential drink
> for
> 	> sure,
> 	> too. The moment is big. But how human it wants ever to be, it is
> hardly
> 	> applicable to the the job of delivering a release, even today. We
> should
> 	> not
> 	> let us to hype but do a solid delivery with everything that belongs
> to it
> 	> at the
> 	> current time. Acting any other way can get dangerous in the
> technical
> 	> perspective and specifically today it would be explicitly unfair to a
> part
> 	> of
> 	> the community. Both things are bad. That's why I would prefer
> rather to
> 	> keep the heads cold and to follow the process that is proven to
> deliver
> 	> successful releases, then we can be sure others have a real reason
> to
> 	> overhype.
>
> 	Anatol,
>
> 	I'm sorry, but this has nothing to do with professionalism or coolness
> of
> 	wine nor heads, and to be perfectly honest, I'm not feeling very
> comfortable
> 	with the suggestion otherwise. Your choice, while completely valid,
> is not
> 	an ounce more professional or cool headed than the alternative.
>
>
>
> let's just stop this here.
> as already mentioned this is how we are doing the release process for
> years,
> if you have a problem with that, you are free to make suggestions or
> initiate
> discussion.
> but what you guys are doing seems to be coercing the current RM to get
> your
> way in the last minute.
> Anatol mentioned the openssl depencency for the windows builds to the
> RMs two days ago and even sent a headsup email to internals (this thread)=
.
>
> we didn't make a promise on the exact hour of the release and we aren't
> late
> yet, I don't think that there is a need for "desperate" measures or
> getting
> into personal attacks.
> everything is going according to the plan.

Ferenc,

I=E2=80=99m not sure what to say.  I was quoting Anatol=E2=80=99s own words=
 to me, I even
refrained from categorizing them as an attack =E2=80=93 and still you=E2=80=
=99re saying I=E2=80=99m
attacking him?  The discussion went off-track as soon as professionalism an=
d
temperatures were introduced to it.

I=E2=80=99m not trying to coerce the RM to do anything.  At this point I=E2=
=80=99m not even
trying to convince him.  Earlier, I did try to convince him why I think he=
=E2=80=99s
taken a wrong decision, but if you read my note =E2=80=93 I outright said i=
t=E2=80=99s his
call and that I=E2=80=99m no longer going to try and continue convincing hi=
m to
change his mind;  The only reason I sent my note is that I did not want the
(bogus) portrayal of this decision as the only professional/cool headed one
to stick, because, well, it=E2=80=99s not true and worse, it's offensive.  =
The
decision to delay is his own, valid, subjective decision =E2=80=93 which is=
 fine,
but that=E2=80=99s it.

Zeev