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Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2015 13:52:28 -0700
Message-ID: <CAObuZdsahyKhEMGhuxnT4B6JmC6YFKEa2CfLKA1hOR18sxJHgw@mail.gmail.com>
To: shadda <shadda@gmail.com>
Cc: Phil Sturgeon <pjsturgeon@gmail.com>, PHP internals <internals@lists.php.net>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1141ea76374ce705253b6792
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP7 Coalesce operator
From: derokorian@gmail.com (Ryan Pallas)

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Well use null coalesce + elvis together then?

// Coalesce possible null values, and use truthy comparison in elvis to
"coalesce" to a default
$var =3D ($_GET['possible_value'] ?? $_COOKIE['secondary'] ?? false) ?:
DEFAULTS['var'];

On Mon, Nov 23, 2015 at 1:16 PM, shadda <shadda@gmail.com> wrote:

> It=E2=80=99s not hate, I happen to like that ?? was added. I=E2=80=99m no=
t raising a
> concern nor asking for a change in its behavior. Rather, I=E2=80=99m aski=
ng for
> another, similar operator that=E2=80=99s based on truth-evaluation (with =
PHP=E2=80=99s
> tender, loving conversion rules baked in), in *addition* to ?? which test=
s
> for null/undefined exclusively.
>
>
> > On Nov 23, 2015, at 12:08 PM, Phil Sturgeon <pjsturgeon@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > On Mon, Nov 23, 2015 at 9:52 AM, shadda <shadda@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Er, that should read, =E2=80=9Canything non (null, false, undefined) i=
s true=E2=80=9D
> >>
> >>> On Nov 23, 2015, at 11:51 AM, shadda <shadda@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hey, thanks for responding.
> >>>
> >>> However, I still think that misses the point, or at least the true
> utility of what I=E2=80=99m proposing.
> >>>
> >>> In practice, you can ignore E_NOTICE and php will happily treat null
> and !isset() as the same thing in *most* cases, so that=E2=80=99s not a g=
ood
> indicator of truthiness.
> >>>
> >>> Basically in ECMA, anything non-null, false, or undefined is true. PH=
P
> is very similar in that regard, but our reliance on E_NOTICE to (ahem)
> enforce isset() checks is why, I assume, we=E2=80=99re introducing the ??=
 operator
> to begin with.
> >>>
> >>> I just think it=E2=80=99d be nice to have a small variation on this f=
eature
> that was less concerned with a (defined|null) semantic and more in keepin=
g
> with PHP=E2=80=99s overall handling of implicit type conversion in expres=
sions.
> >>>
> >>> Does that make more sense?
> >>>
> >>>> On Nov 22, 2015, at 12:41 PM, Andrea Faulds <ajf@ajf.me> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Hi,
> >>>>
> >>>> shadda wrote:
> >>>>> I had a question-suggestion based around the cool new operator we=
=E2=80=99re
> getting in PHP7, the ?? operator, which as I understand it is the
> functional equivalent to perl=E2=80=99s // operator; in that they both te=
st for
> whether or not a variable is defined, rather than it=E2=80=99s truthiness=
.
> >>>>
> >>>> This is not strictly correct. Though something of a misnomer, the
> 'null coalesce operator' checks if a variable doesn't exist, but also tha=
t
> it is not null, i.e. it functions like isset().
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks.
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Andrea Faulds
> >>>> http://ajf.me/
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List
> >>>> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List
> >> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
> >>
> >
> > Ignoring E_NOTICE is generally considered bad practice by many, and
> > turning them off just to use ternaries instead of null coalesce (a
> > feature we already have) doesn't seem like a benefit.
> >
> > The ?? is used the same as "a =3D b || c" in Ruby or JS. Doing that in
> > PHP wouldn't work well as || works a bit differently, so ?? is used
> > instead, just like C and Swift.
> >
> > Basically... it's all good. And even if you hate it you're months too
> > late to raise a concern. :)
>
>
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> PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List
> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
>
>

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