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Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2015 16:05:20 +0100
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To: Rasmus Lerdorf <rasmus@lerdorf.com>
In-Reply-To: <034657A2-53AC-48CD-ABDD-6EB18896ABF6@lerdorf.com>
CC: Anthony Ferrara <ircmaxell@gmail.com>, Zeev Suraski <zeev@zend.com>, Joe
 Watkins <pthreads@pthreads.org>, Julien Pauli <jpauli@php.net>, Derick
 Rethans <derick@php.net>, Phil Sturgeon <pjsturgeon@gmail.com>, Xinchen Hui
	<laruence@php.net>, Anatol Belski <anatol.php@belski.net>, PHP internals
	<internals@lists.php.net>
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] INDRECT in arrays causes count() to become unpredictable
From: bobwei9@hotmail.com (Bob Weinand)


> Am 23.11.2015 um 15:52 schrieb Rasmus Lerdorf <rasmus@lerdorf.com>:
>=20
>> On Nov 23, 2015, at 15:21, Anthony Ferrara <ircmaxell@gmail.com> wrote:
>>=20
>> Rasmus,
>>=20
>>> I think this was mostly a PR failure on my part actually. If I/we are a b=
it more careful about how we handle similar issues and the people lurking wi=
th itchy Twitter trigger fingers would spend a bit more time looking into th=
e details we should all be able to get along and get a good launch with no c=
ontroversy on Dec.3.
>>=20
>> Sorry, but when you make a statement like:
>>=20
>>> Nobody is going to take a .0.0 and push it straight to production.
>>=20
>> THAT is more than a PR failure. That's a perspective failure.
>=20
> I still don't see anyone going straight to production with 7.0.0 unless th=
ey have been extensively testing the RCs. And if they have been extensively t=
esting the RCs then any issues in them must not be impacting them. 7.0.0 is t=
he wake up call for all the people who haven't been testing the RCs and as s=
uch it will generate more issues, regardless of how long we wait. That's why=
 I still wouldn't suggest anyone go straight to production with 7.0.0 even i=
f we delay another full year. This has nothing to do with being cavalier nor=
 having a perspective failure about anything, it has to do with being realis=
tic and pragmatic about how things work based on years of experience doing t=
his.
>=20
> Every single release in the history of PHP has been a compromise. We have R=
Cs until the set of fixes from one RC to the next is free of major issues. T=
here will always be more issues, so we have to make a release decision at so=
me point.
>=20
> -Rasmus

I think every party has valid points and I think Rasmus is right. We'll alwa=
ys have some bugs where others think it's worthy a RC. I don't disagree with=
 putting the bugfix into the 7.0.0 release (without further RC).

But after all it's affecting a rather edge case; just the symtables. I have y=
et to see code which would break without the fix. It wouldn't be too bad to h=
ave it in 7.0.1 now. It's not a PR failure. The only thing which harmed PR m=
aybe is having put this up to public discussion, and then still...

But still, that's Anatol and Kalle who have to decide whether a further RC i=
s necessary.

Please let's wait for their opinion now. Thanks,
Bob=