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Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2015 07:52:27 +0000
Message-ID: <CAL=_i_kArsu2JGYtdZBa-mah+k6DL-cCWtiX16mVcTsxH3WDrw@mail.gmail.com>
To: Anatol Belski <anatol.php@belski.net>
Cc: Rasmus Lerdorf <rasmus@lerdorf.com>, Anthony Ferrara <ircmaxell@gmail.com>, 
	Zeev Suraski <zeev@zend.com>, PHP internals <internals@lists.php.net>
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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] INDRECT in arrays causes count() to become unpredictable
From: pthreads@pthreads.org (Joe Watkins)

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Morning Anatol,

> People that don't test RC won't start to test any later RC anyway.

This wasn't reported by "people", this was found by one of us.

The problem isn't only that we have a bug in symbol tables, the problem is
that the bug was found so very late in the process.

We cannot reasonably have confidence that no other such bugs exist.

I think it doesn't make sense to push forward with the current release time
table now. I think it makes sense to do another RC and give *us* a little
bit longer to test.

Please reconsider.

Cheers
Joe


On Mon, Nov 23, 2015 at 7:28 AM, Anatol Belski <anatol.php@belski.net>
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Rasmus Lerdorf [mailto:rasmus@lerdorf.com]
> > Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2015 11:20 PM
> > To: Anthony Ferrara <ircmaxell@gmail.com>; Zeev Suraski <zeev@zend.com>
> > Cc: internals@lists.php.net
> > Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] INDRECT in arrays causes count() to become
> > unpredictable
> >
> > On 11/22/2015 06:18 AM, Anthony Ferrara wrote:
> > > Zeev,
> > >
> > > On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 11:52 PM, Zeev Suraski <zeev@zend.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> On 22 =D7=91=D7=A0=D7=95=D7=91=D7=B3 2015, at 0:47, Anthony Ferrara=
 <ircmaxell@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> I think this is significant enough to be a blocker to gold and that
> > >>> we should fix it prior to release.
> > >>>
> > >>> Thoughts?
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> IMHO, unless we think fixing this would require breaking binary
> compatibility
> > (which I don't think is the case) - this shouldn't block 7.0.0.  7.0.0
> is a lot more
> > about getting people to start paying attention to 7.0 and start testing
> their
> > codebase against it - finding both the incompatibilities in their code
> and,
> > undoubtedly - the bugs we failed to find.  I wish we could say this
> would be the
> > last issue we find in 7.0, but I think we can all agree it's wishful
> thinking...
> > >
> > > Consider that Distros may very well pick whatever we call stable for
> > > LTS releases. Meaning that non-critical (crash/security) bugs that we
> > > miss may wind up living on for a VERY long time. If we don't intend .=
0
> > > to be stable, then what's the point of versioning in the first place?
> > >
> > > Xinchen,
> > >
> > > Very interesting on the fix. I do think it's important for this to
> > > land with 7, but at least we can have the discussion.
> >
> > I agree with Zeev here and I had a chat with Anatol about this tonight.
> > This is a .0.0 release. Nobody is going to take a .0.0 and push it
> straight to
> > production. And it is not going to part of any sort of LTS distro
> either. It's not like
> > LTS distros don't pick up point releases.
> > There is no way we will go 2 weeks without finding something for quite =
a
> while
> > still which can drag things out indefinitely. The question is whether
> this is
> > significant enough to postpone further. Personally I don't think it is.
> Let's get
> > 7.0.0 out the door and get ourselves on track for regular point release=
s
> without
> > any of this "perfect-release"
> > stress.
> >
> From what I was merging for 7.0.0, I see that there are quite some
> primitive bug fixes, a couple of non critical 7.0 bugs and 2 bugs merged =
up
> from 5.6. The issue with the symtable counter stands at some point around
> the critical border. I personally would see it as not crossing that borde=
r.
>
> So based on this, I'd rather go by releasing. The bug list after RC7 look=
s
> pretty much like a regular patch release, or even better. Comparing to RC=
6
> where it was started to be tested obviously some more intensively, RC7
> looks more like lost attention. We could go with more RC, sure. However i=
n
> that case IMO we would catch bugs at very low speed with no guarantee we
> have a good thing at the end when we "think" it's good. This will cause u=
s
> to defer things for much longer time. Releasing on 26th (or on 3rd with
> respect to Thanksgiving, if there are still strong concerns) were IMHO
> convenient for this reasons.
>
> People that don't test RC won't start to test any later RC anyway. People
> that don't test RC will start to use  GA and that will lead to bug report=
s,
> in any case. So IMHO at this point we are good enough to do the first
> release with all the known bugs fixed, with the knowledge that no critica=
l
> bugs are present, with the knowledge that community projects like Drupal =
8,
> Symfony, etc. report the green tests, and with intention to get people
> waiting for GA involved.
>
> Regards
>
> Anatol
>
>
>
>
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