Newsgroups: php.internals Path: news.php.net Xref: news.php.net php.internals:87641 Return-Path: Mailing-List: contact internals-help@lists.php.net; run by ezmlm Delivered-To: mailing list internals@lists.php.net Received: (qmail 61009 invoked from network); 5 Aug 2015 09:20:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO lists.php.net) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 5 Aug 2015 09:20:08 -0000 Authentication-Results: pb1.pair.com smtp.mail=derick@php.net; spf=unknown; sender-id=unknown Authentication-Results: pb1.pair.com header.from=derick@php.net; sender-id=unknown Received-SPF: unknown (pb1.pair.com: domain php.net does not designate 82.113.146.227 as permitted sender) X-PHP-List-Original-Sender: derick@php.net X-Host-Fingerprint: 82.113.146.227 xdebug.org Linux 2.6 Received: from [82.113.146.227] ([82.113.146.227:43618] helo=xdebug.org) by pb1.pair.com (ecelerity 2.1.1.9-wez r(12769M)) with ESMTP id E4/6B-11835-445D1C55 for ; Wed, 05 Aug 2015 05:20:05 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by xdebug.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49F4510C37A; Wed, 5 Aug 2015 10:20:01 +0100 (BST) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2015 10:20:00 +0100 (BST) X-X-Sender: derick@whisky.home.derickrethans.nl To: Ferenc Kovacs cc: Scott Arciszewski , "internals@lists.php.net" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <41.B2.09373.B881EB55@pb1.pair.com> <1438641454.18995.10.camel@kuechenschabe> User-Agent: Alpine 2.20 (DEB 67 2015-01-07) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; BOUNDARY="8323329-1619499334-1438766401=:13034" Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Move internals discussion to a better medium From: derick@php.net (Derick Rethans) --8323329-1619499334-1438766401=:13034 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE On Tue, 4 Aug 2015, Ferenc Kovacs wrote: > On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 7:18 PM, Scott Arciszewski > wrote: >=20 > > On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 12:36 PM, Ferenc Kovacs wrote= : > > > On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 6:12 PM, Terry Cullen wro= te: > > > > > >> On Tuesday, 4 August 2015, Johannes Schl=C3=BCter > > >> wrote: > > >> > > >> > On Sun, 2015-08-02 at 17:15 -0500, Stephen Coakley wrote: > > >> >=20 > > >> > > You have to admit, NNTP news is an aging technology, with=20 > > >> > > fewer and fewer readers available as time goes on. Nowadays=20 > > >> > > (for graphical clients), there's Pan, and Thunderbird,=20 > > >> > > and...? I use Thunderbird at the moment, because I didn't=20 > > >> > > want to fill up my email, and there aren't too many readers.=20 > > >> > > Heck, Thunderbird is technically a "discontinued" product. > > >> > > > >> > ... and with a forum there is only a single client. The forum=20 > > >> > itself. ;-) Yes, and a forum is "oh let me see whether there is a new post" compared=20 to: here is a new post. A mailinglist also allows for filters, searches,=20 etc, a forum never does. And most of their interfaces for editting text=20 are even worse than Gmail. > > >> Redmine would be a good option. http://www.redmine.org/ > > >> > > >> The feature list has most everything covered in this thread.=20 > > >> http://www.redmine.org/projects/redmine/wiki/Features > > > > > > maybe it just me, but it seems to me, that every time this idea is=20 > > > brought up, not many people from the actual participants of the=20 > > > list speak up, but bunch of people who never before sent a mail to=20 > > > the list will chip in. Right, because most of us, are likely just happy with what there=20 currently exists. > > > I'm not saying that there is nothing to improve, but I think that=20 > > > it would be important to actually incorporate some feedback from=20 > > > the people actually generating the content on the list. personally=20 > > > I would prefer moving to something like google groups and doing in=20 > > > a way that we can preserve archives (=20 > > > https://github.com/wojdyr/fityk/wiki/MigrationToGoogleGroups) that=20 > > > would allow us to actually kill our ancient list/ezmlm=20 > > > infrastructure along with news.php.net which would be a huge win. GoogleGroups? You must be kidding. It's a pile of poo. Not only is it=20 ridiculously bad in following any sort of RFC (quoting breakage,=20 in-reply-to errors, and mangling), it also promotes bad=20 multiple-people-discussions, such as top-posting. Then, it routes mail=20 wrong sometimes, and good luck managing a list with it. > > > it would also make it much more easier to search/link to our=20 > > > mailing lists archives: news.php.net has no way of searching,=20 > > > news://news.php.net is pretty slow, we have a couple of mail=20 > > > archives like=20 > > > https://www.mail-archive.com/internals@lists.php.net/ which are=20 > > > indexing some of our mailing lists, but they don't have the=20 > > > archives from the beginings, but I remember seeing a mail from=20 > > > them to ask for our archives in an mbox and they then would be=20 > > > able to add the missing indexes. That was Gmane, which has all 100055+ emails archived. It's also an NNTP=20 server that allows everybody to read and write to the list:=20 http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.php.devel > > > moving to google groups would=20 > > > also make it much easier to manage the groups (there are less=20 > > > people familiar with ezmlm administration than people with google=20 > > > groups experience) and make it easier to reply to old mails. ezmlm isn't that hard to manage, it's just that we don't have enough=20 people to do it - are you volunteering? > > > I think that would suit our usage pattern better than a forum and=20 > > > personally I don't really want to start hosting/maintaining one=20 > > > (we should have to integrate our own auth and probably acl into=20 > > > that, security audit, keep it up-to-date, etc.). Well, I think Google Groups is shit :) cheers, Derick --8323329-1619499334-1438766401=:13034--