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Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2015 09:33:15 +0100
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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: Move internals discussion to a better medium
From: lester@lsces.co.uk (Lester Caine)

On 03/08/15 01:19, Stephen Coakley wrote:
> On 08/02/2015 06:31 PM, Lester Caine wrote:
>> On 03/08/15 00:01, Markus Malkusch wrote:
>>> Anyways, OP was complaining about missing interfaces and features,
>>> which is
>>> simply not true. You can communicate through Email, NNTP and if one
>>> wants a
>>> webinterface so hardly just wrap one around NNTP. How can it be more
>>> accessible by reducing it to some webinterface only?
> 
> No one said that it would be a web interface only (though that is most
> common). An email system could be supported.

It's that 'could' which is the problem. A number of lists I am involved
with have moved off yahoo because 'the web interface is crap', but the
replacements still do not work email wise so half the users are still on
yahoo. Yet there IS no problem supporting email as yahoo proves, just
their shit upgrades to improve advertising revenue which are the problem
on the web interface.

> I hate sounding like a hipster youngin', but there's a reason why web
> interfaces have been replacing a lot of things over the years, though.
> It seems like pretty much everything computerized can access a web
> interface these days.

And I suppose you have 24/7 internet without interruptions everywhere
you go? I can't get a mobile signal many places I go, but I can still
read and work out replies off-line. I'm sure I'm not the only one?

>> Some of the web based forums have attempted to integrate email with the
>> on-line interface. Yahoo groups is an utter pain but I don't have to use
>> any of the web based interface, I just use emails and in the morning
>> there will be a number sitting in inbox so I don't have to scan around a
>> dozen sites to see what is happening.
> 
> That does seem like a reasonable advantage to supporting email.

I can see all of the replies to this thread this morning even if the
line has dropped ... some lists I used to use I've now dropped simply
because their 'email summary' means I have to go on-line to see if any
of them actually have an interest. On the email lists I can see
everything that has happened over night ...

>> The ones that do send email
>> notifications make a half hearted attempt, but one has to go on line to
>> see the content o post replies. What *IS* needed is a nice cross format
>> system of working, but that only requires adding a preferred web
>> interface to the existing email service? Perhaps then people who seem to
>> prefer top posting will use the web interface and those of us who prefer
>> a private local archive will then simply get the new text ... as an
>> email.
> 
> That sounds like a conflict of interest, but that's just me.

One of the complaints about the email list IS the 'one line replies top
posted', and yahoo has problems with people receiving the 'digest' and
replying via that quoting the whole thing. Personally I would prefer
that 'top posters' simply switched off ANY quoting since we don't need
yet another copy, and the web interface would hopefully provide that
avenue.

>> There are already web based interfaces but not providing what some
>> people seem to want. What is stopping the development of one of those
>> interfaces into an addition to the existing email channels? No need to
>> MOVE anything!
> 
> What is stopping development? NNTP is an ancient protocol. Nobody wants
> to bother writing *new* software for it.

I'm not talking about the news feed, that is just ANOTHER channel into
the archive and I see no reason to break that either. Just improve one
of the web based services to provided an additional 'edit' facility and
leave everything else in place as it is? What I am asking is what is
missing from the likes of
https://www.mail-archive.com/internals@lists.php.net/ but I think
https://marc.info/?l=php-internals is open source code and the one
php.net refers to?

-- 
Lester Caine - G8HFL
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