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Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2015 20:05:20 +0000
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To: Stig Bakken <stig@stigbakken.com>, Dor Tchizik <dor@tchizik.com>, 
	PHP Internals <internals@lists.php.net>
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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Move internals discussion to a better medium
From: dor@tchizik.com (Dor Tchizik)

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I already have. iojs (and soon, nodejs), as well as Rust which was
mentioned by someone else.

On Sun, Aug 2, 2015 at 11:04 PM Stig Bakken <stig@stigbakken.com> wrote:

> On Sun, Aug 2, 2015 at 2:02 PM Dor Tchizik <dor@tchizik.com> wrote:
>
>> Hello internals!
>>
>> I wanted to propose a change to how PHP discussions are made.
>>
>> Currently, PHP discussions are held on the various mailing lists, managed
>> by an old mailing list system, without any proper alternative interface to
>> follow and respond outside of mailing.
>> The discussion is hidden away, deep within the mails and the archives,
>> searching is nigh impossible for someone from the outside.
>> Moreover, subscribing to internals and starting discussion has a *very
>> high
>> entry bar*, which is bad for any open source project (PHP is still
>> considered an open source project, yes?). For example, ask a friend to try
>> and find how to join in on the conversation, without mentioning the
>> mailing
>> list or the word "internals".
>>
>> I propose that internals discussion to be moved (eventually entirely) to a
>> different medium, where the example I have in mind is GitHub issues (but
>> that is up for discussion).
>>
>>
>>    - Every developer worth his salt has a GitHub account. Finding the php
>
>
>>    project and looking at the issues is trivial.
>>
>    - GitHub issues can reference to people by name (triggering an explicit
>>    notification).
>>    - GitHub issues can reference other issues (currently impossible with
>
>
>>    the mailing list, unless you link to some archive, and then you can't
>>    really participate in the discussion, nor you have a guaranteed
>> context for
>>    the rest of the discussion)
>>
>    - GitHub issues can be read and interacted with, from email. (Responding
>
>
>>    to an issue/commit comment notification will actually respond to the
>> thread)
>>
>    - GitHub issues can reference commits directly.
>>    - GitHub commits can reference issues directly.
>>    - You can close GitHub issues.
>>    - GitHub issues are searchable. You have tags.
>>    - GitHub issues can be associated with milestones for easy reference.
>>    - You can comment on specific lines of a commit, and can reference
>> files
>
>
>>    and line numbers from issue comments directly.
>>
>    - You don't need to maintain GitHub, like you do with the current system
>>    - Markdown formatting!
>
>
>>
>> There are probably more advantages I forgot to mention, but any developer
>> who's familiar with GitHub (or BitBucket, or practically any other form of
>> Git integration) knows of these free features and advantages, and most of
>> them use them and take them for granted.
>>
>> Now, that's not to say the current system has no advantages over the
>> current one.
>> A few disadvantages of GitHub:
>>
>>    - GitHub may be down (although I can probably count on one hand how
>> many
>
>
>>    times that happened in the past several years)
>>
>    - GitHub's mailing system is not as robust as the mailing-list software.
>
>
>>    People who are exclusively used to emails will have to get used to a
>>    slightly different interface.
>>
>    - Moving to GitHub (or any other medium) would take some thinking and
>
>
>>    work done on the side of the people of internals.
>>
>> Personally, I think the advantages would seriously overweigh the
>> disadvantages. PHP would enjoy a more robust discussion system, and a more
>> open form of discussion, involving more people and more opinions.
>>
>> (I also have a matching workflow adjustment for the RFC process, but that
>> can be discussed later)
>>
>
> Are you being serious? Can you provide examples of projects that have
> successfully replaced their developer mailing lists with GitHub issues?
>
>  - Stig
>
>

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