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In-Reply-To: <CANUQDCja=HpYLpegd5gDcsqbF1EZwTaaa9bu=iJ3OmkR9=k=kw@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2015 16:48:46 +0200
Cc: Rowan Collins <rowan.collins@gmail.com>,
 PHP Internals <internals@lists.php.net>
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To: Niklas Keller <me@kelunik.com>
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: Move internals discussion to a better medium
From: andreas@heigl.org (Andreas Heigl)

Hi Niklas

> Am 02.08.2015 um 16:26 schrieb Niklas Keller <me@kelunik.com>:
>=20
> 2015-08-02 15:29 GMT+02:00 Rowan Collins <rowan.collins@gmail.com>:
>=20
>>> On 2 August 2015 13:54:46 BST, Niklas Keller <me@kelunik.com> wrote:
>>> We're discussing issues here, so what's wrong with an issue tracker?
>>=20
>> No, we're discussing every aspect of the project, from release  managemen=
t
>> to personal introductions.
>=20
>=20
> Release management, RFCs and other things totally fit something I'd call
> issue.
> Personal introductions are a valid point, they're nothing I'd do with
> issues, that's something that fits here.
>=20
>> I can see more than one benefit. Probably most important is that you
>>> can
>>> follow just some things, instead of getting all the mails.
>>=20
>> I subscribe with a gmail account, filter the list into its own folder,
>> then pick out the threads I'm interested in using Thunderbird or K9 Mail.=

>> Most of the time there are only about half a dozen active threads anyway.=

>>=20
>>> Additionally, you
>>> can ping people, that's not possible here, most mails are just "reply
>>> all"
>>> messages.
>>=20
>> I CC'd you on this message; how is that not "pinging' you? Actually, it's=

>> a bit *too* easy, as a lot of the time "Reply to All" is simpler than
>> "Reply to List". Either way, that's a feature issue trackers have borrowe=
d
>> from forums rather than vice versa.
>=20
>=20
> It's probably because GMail lacks a clear indication here. There is one,
> but not eye-catching enough.
> Having a lot of clients to choose from with different features can totally=

> be a advantage, because everyone can choose the one that he / she likes
> best, but there are also disadvantages like a higher barrier for new users=

> or non-regular users.

So basically we shall change a well established open source tool because gma=
il isn't capable of handling an RFC and Some developers are unable to setup t=
heir tools properly? Yes it is exagerating I know. But that' how I currently=
 feel about this topic.=20
>=20
> TBH, it's not just about communication on the mailing list here. PHP's bug=

> tracker is a real PITA, at least for users without a php.net account.

I'm not sure why it's a PITA. you can search for issues without problems. An=
d if you miss certain functions you can open a PR. Yes, without karma you ca=
n't change anything. Which - AFAIK - isn't possible in github or any other i=
ssue-tracker as well. And that's what we are talking about here.=20
>=20
> How about a tool like Phabricator?

And why not Jira? Or bugzilla? Or Bitbucket? Or gitlab? or github? or ...

Why not use the existing tools and spend the time lost in such discussions b=
y instead making these tools awesome?

Cheers

Andreas