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Date: Sun, 24 May 2015 23:41:47 +0200
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Subject: RE: [PHP-DEV] RIP: NSAPI SAPI Plugin (unfortunately -> thanks Oracle)
From: anatol.php@belski.net ("Anatol Belski")

Hi Uwe,

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Uwe Schindler [mailto:thetaphi@php.net]
> Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2015 12:18 PM
> To: 'Anatol Belski'; 'Internals'
> Subject: RE: [PHP-DEV] RIP: NSAPI SAPI Plugin (unfortunately -> thanks
> Oracle)
>=20
> Hi Anatol,
>=20
> > > you may know that I am the maintainer of the NSAPI SAPI module. I
> > > spent a lot of time in improving it. The next update would have =
been
> > > to change it to the PHP 7 threading model, but based on recent
> > > experience with Oracle, I will stop maintaining the plugin. We
> > > should not remove it from PHP 5, but it should no longer be =
available
> for PHP7.
> > >
> > > The reason for this decision is:
> > >
> > > - Oracle seems to no longer have any interest in maintaining any
> > > public accessible developer downloads, you can now only "order" =
the
> > > product and download installation files (and therefore header =
files)
> > > through their paywall. All references to the OTN (Oracle =
Technology
> > > Network, means developer licenses) downloads were removed
> completely
> > > from their web pages. This happened after I asked a question on
> > > their support forums (which was moderated away), where the OTN
> > > downloads
> > for
> > > the latest version including TLS 1.2 support are located now. This
> > > lead to the fact that they disabled the download page completely
> > > (and my post was moderated away, which is a really bad behavior,
> > > sorry I have to say this!). Somebody there should have known that =
I
> > > am the person who worked closely together with the people working =
on
> > > the iPlanet/Sun Webserver at Sun Microsystems times. This is =
annoying.
> > >
> > > - I am also phasing out use of this webserver privately, because =
the
> > > new conditions are unacceptable. In my opinion, this webserver was =
a
> > > great piece of nice and fast software, including - next to PHP -
> > > Java web application support inside the webserver, so there was no
> > > need to have stuff like reverse proxies needed (the usual Tomcat
> > > behind a reverse proxy Apache), because the Java code was running
> > > inside the web server (and this made it very fast). Of course, PHP
> > > support (when used through the NSAPI
> > > plugin) was great, too, because there was no overhead (although =
some
> > > PHP extensions were not compatible, because this webserver runs in =
a
> > > multithreaded way).
> > >
> > > People that still want to stay on iPlanet webserver can fallback =
to
> > > using FastCGI, which has some pitfalls, but generally works. The
> > > NSAPI plugin allowed to do much more like binding PHP script to
> > > directory (allowing to make custom PHP-based directory listings), =
or
> > > error pages. This is impossible using FastCGI as far as I know.
> > >
> > > I am sorry, I have to stop supporting it, because Oracle killed =
the
> > > last piece of good software :-(
> > >
> > > If there needs to be some decision about removing this plugin
> > > through an RFC, I can trigger one, but to me the above changes in
> > > Licensing make it impossible to longer support this piece of =
software.
> > > Uwe
> > >
> > Thanks for the information. It's of course sad. I personally was
> > hoping to be able to work and debug with one more real =
multi-threaded
> > SAPI besides Apache. But so is the life.
> >
> > We've already had the NSAPI SAPI in the RFC suggesting removals
> > https://wiki.php.net/rfc/removal_of_dead_sapis_and_exts#sapinsapi . =
As
> > preparations I was building and testing every item in that RFC I =
could
> > get my hands on. But for sapi/nsapi I couldn't get the environment
> > already at that time, so I wasn't able to test it.
> >
> > It's senseless to guess how this item would have been voted. But =
with
> > the addition of the knowing you shared today it looks pretty much =
that
> > we should not carry it with PHP7. If one even cannot get the
> > dependency library, except one has to buy it, it's a blocker. Well,
> > except one wants to buy it :)
> >
> > Now, as that was the RFC I was working on, here are the steps I =
would
> > suggest.
> >
> > Maybe there were a chance to ask for an exception for PHP project, =
you
> > personally or whatever (if you're still interested)?
>=20
> As I described in my post before, I am a little bit annoyed becaue of =
Oracle's
> behaviour. I was just asking for a more up-to-date developer download =
on
> their forum around iPlanet web server. The reaction to that was:
> - initially the post was "automoderated" (review) - that's just fine
> - after a few days (when I came back to the forum), the web interface
> notified me that my post was blocked by a moderator.
> - in parallel to that, the download to the older version (v7.0.15) was
> removed!
>=20
> To me this looks like (this is just some:
> - Oracle wasn't aware that there was still a download to the older =
version (it
> was also hidden on their web page, you had to know what to enter into
> Google).
> - My forum request triggered a review of their web page -> they =
removed
> the downloads
> - By post was blocked to hide that fact, that it was available in =
earlier times
> (and they maybe did not know).
> - All other questions from other people about where to download the
> newer version were answered with an "Oracle patch ID #foobar" and a =
link
> to the paywall (those questions were without reference to free OTN
> downloads, so they were not blocked by moderator).
>=20
> Because of this really "bad behavior", I am a bit annoyed. Maybe they =
can
> fix this, but I would like to have a reaction from their side. I would =
then try
> to look into this and help you with updating to new TLS API. This was =
one
> reason why I did this request to their forum, to get up-to-date =
Windows and
> Linux downloads.
I saw your temper in the first mail. But also that you were ready to =
support it if possible. As the irritation can go by, but the software =
stays. Would make me feel same as you actually.

> > Else, I would do the last call for someone with the access to =
iPlanet
> > libraries who is ready to port maintain sapi/nsapi in PHP7.
> > If there is one, we're all fine. Someone?
>=20
> I still have access to the iPlanet libraries and I also have a =
download of
> version 7.0.15 for Linux - I can share the download (but this could be =
illegal,
> not sure). But I have no Windows version anymore, sorry.
I think having only one version even for both Linux/Windows were not =
enough, as one would need to catch up with the eventual updates. Even =
more, as the Windows part is missing. So we were possibly not able to =
reproduce and fix bugs. So probably a dead end. At this point this is =
objectively the main blocker.

> > Else I would suggest to remove sapi/nsapi from the PHP7 branch by
> > gathering a simple consent here on the lists.
> > If any objections are raised, then the RFC way needs to be hit. It
> > makes probably little sense to leave something not ported after so
> > many cleanups was already done.
>=20
> OK, this looks fine. Maybe we should involve Oracle people. =
Unfortunately, I
> have no direct contact regarding iPlanet.
> I have good contacts to the Oracle Quality Assurance team in Ireland, =
but
> that is regarding Java. But those people are not responsible to this =
issue.
>=20
At the time I was investigating on the RFC, there already was a negative =
answer from the iPlanet team. So we already knew at that time they won't =
support it, it's stated in the RFC.

Regards

Anatol