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Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2015 20:19:18 +0000
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To: Dennis Birkholz <dennis@birkholz.biz>, Stanislav Malyshev <smalyshev@gmail.com>, internals@lists.php.net
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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] What's our official stance on small self-contained
 additions in a micro version
From: rican7@gmail.com (Trevor Suarez)

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Author of PR https://github.com/php/php-src/pull/1145 here.

I'm really quite sorry. I didn't mean to create a mess here. I was just
trying to contribute. :/

Unfortunately, whether or not an RFC was necessary for an addition like
this wasn't very clear. I'm an internals noob, so I simply tried to follow
the flow of the addition of the similar method
`DateTimeImmutable::createFromMutable()` that was added, without RFC
(correct me if I'm wrong), in 5.6.0:
http://php.net/manual/en/datetimeimmutable.createfrommutable.php

Unfortunately, I'm not a huge fan of Derick's `createFromMutable()` method
(why isn't there just a `createFromInstance()` or `copy()` method of some
sort), but I tried to best follow the current design with my proposal and
pull request.

I think some clarification regarding what does or does-not require an RFC
would make it much more helpful to contributors that want to help build PHP.

Again, sorry if I caused any issue here.

- Trevor

On Wed, Apr 1, 2015 at 4:09 PM Dennis Birkholz <dennis@birkholz.biz> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Am 01.04.2015 um 21:43 schrieb Stanislav Malyshev:
> >> That is right and I think that is the reality we have to face: most
> >> users use distro versions. They get a new version when they need to
> >> upgrade their distro every few years.
> >
> > I'm not sure where you got this statistics from, but as I said, it is
> > very easy to make .rpm or .deb with source version from php.net of the
> > same minor. I've seen it done many times. It's next to impossible to
> > make the same with different major, and nobody would do it for obvious
> > stability concerns. I think the approach of "you have to wait several
> > years for any tiny change" is terrible and detrimental for PHP
> > development, however easy it makes the life of folks in Debian, etc.
>
> I vaguely remembered the usage statistics that Anthony assembled in
> December and had other numbers in my head. (see
> http://blog.ircmaxell.com/2014/12/php-install-statistics.html)
>
> 5.5.12 (Ubuntu 14.10): 0.16%
> 5.5.9 (Ubuntu 14.04): 1.81%
> 5.4.16 (CentOS 7.0): 0.42%
> 5.4.4 (Debian Wheezy): 2.14%
> 5.3.10 (Ubuntu 12.04): 4.13%
> 5.3.3 (Debian Squeeze, Centos 6.6): 10.37%
> 5.3.2 (Ubuntu 10.04): 1.06%
> 5.1.6 (CentOS 5.11): 1.14%
> ==============================
> Debian, Ubuntu and CentOS: ~21,23%
>
> (I assume here like Anthony that the installs matching a distribution
> specific version always come from that distribution).
>
> So I have to step a little back from my previous statement, only about
> 1/5th of the installs seem to use distribution installs. But there are a
> lot of used versions in between. Why they don't upgrade I don't know,
> but if the upgrade would be a no-brainer without any risk for
> incompatibility, probably more would upgrade, but that is just speculation.
>
> >> No, I don't say ban non-security bugfixes. But I say don't add new
> >> methods/functionality that should go in the next feature release.
> >
> > I'm fine with adding only those that should go into the current one,
> > namely small self-contained additions :) Just as we agreed on long ago.
>
> An addition and a bug fix are different things.
>
> Greets
> Dennis
>
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