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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Deprecate or remove mbstring function overloads in
 PHP 7
From: rowan.collins@gmail.com (Rowan Collins)

Pierre Joye wrote on 25/03/2015 13:19:
> On Wed, Mar 25, 2015 at 1:35 PM, Rowan Collins <rowan.collins@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Levi Morrison wrote on 24/03/2015 20:35:
>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 11:30 AM, Rowan Collins <rowan.collins@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> François Laupretre wrote on 24/03/2015 16:30:
>>>>>> De : Bob Weinand [mailto:bobwei9@hotmail.com]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No, he isn't asking for delaying the timeline. He's asking if we can do
>>>>>> this
>>>>>> without RFC. Minimal self-contained changes don't need a RFC and can go
>>>>>> as
>>>>>> well into alpha/beta phase without issues.
>>>>> Sorry, I don't understand when a change is supposed to require an RFC or
>>>>> not, and when it can come after feature freeze or not. Is it written
>>>>> somewhere ? What is the definition of a 'minimal self-contained' change
>>>>> ?
>>>>> Why is it different if it belongs to an extension ?
>>>>>
>>>>> I may be wrong but the proposed change is not what I call a 'minimal
>>>>> self-contained' change and there's a clear BC break. I'd love it to be
>>>>> part
>>>>> of 7.0 but I would first appreciate to be sure the rules are the same
>>>>> for
>>>>> everyone.
>>>>
>>>> Agreed, this is quite a major feature, and pretty much everything in PHP
>>>> is
>>>> an "extension" as far as the architecture is concerned.
>>>>
>>>> While I agree it would be great to phase this functionality out, I don't
>>>> see
>>>> how that can be done without an RFC.
>>> If we deprecate it I am fine with doing this without an RFC. Removing
>>> it would need an RFC in my opinion.
>>
>> But a decision to "deprecate" just means "remove, but not yet", so either
>> way we're making a decision about what features the language will have, and
>> skipping the established process in the name of convenience.
>>
>> I wonder if people are confusing the fact that they don't like this feature,
>> and don't need it, with it being a "minor" feature. There are definitely
>> people out there using it, and the impact of removing it may be considerable
>> to them. There is also the question of what we are deprecating it in favour
>> of.
> To me it is buggy. It is a partial implementation to begin with. An
> app has no idea what is supported or not, custom extensions will call
> native APIs without taking care about what the PHP exposed functions
> are.

I agree with the reasoning, but again, that's justification for its 
removal, not justification for skipping the RFC process.

I think there should be a quick RFC collecting this reasoning, and a 
formal invitation for contrary opinions, to avoid accusations that it 
was slipped in the back door. If there really is no opposition, the RFC 
will record that the vote was unanimous, and be a point of reference to 
anyone looking for more explanation than the manual provides.

Regards,
-- 
Rowan Collins
[IMSoP]