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Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2015 15:20:41 -0700
Message-ID: <CADNQb0Xfz5925tu2Vr7QthLn0VxUwPGRSxvGgQixYbDUV_ZV2w@mail.gmail.com>
To: Pierre Joye <pierre.php@gmail.com>
Cc: "Sebastian B.-Hagensen" <sbj.ml.read@gmail.com>, Anthony Ferrara <ircmaxell@gmail.com>, 
	"internals@lists.php.net" <internals@lists.php.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Voting irregularities
From: hannes.magnusson@gmail.com (Hannes Magnusson)

I have asked you before to stop harassing me, and stop spreading these
lies and defamation before.
Furthermore I have asked you to stop emailing all together.

I have asked you very politely several times before.

Please refrain for talking about me or to me ever again. I will take
legal actions if this does not stop.
Thank you for your understanding.

-Hannes


On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 6:30 PM, Pierre Joye <pierre.php@gmail.com> wrote:
> hi,
>
> On Wed, Mar 18, 2015 at 9:00 AM, Hannes Magnusson
> <hannes.magnusson@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 2:15 PM, Sebastian B.-Hagensen
>> <sbj.ml.read@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> 2015-03-17 20:55 GMT+01:00 Hannes Magnusson <hannes.magnusson@gmail.com>:
>>>> If you need to confirm the statistics, or gather more background data,
>>>> then feel free to contact me privately, off the list, and I'll get you
>>>> the account approval dates (karma and/or wiki).
>>>
>>> While I agree that the issue at hand was not presented in the way it
>>> should have been may still become a valid issue in the future.
>>> If you want to prevent situations or even (wrong) ideas and
>>> accusations like these the dates of account creations have to be
>>> public and easily accessible by everyone involved (publicly listed on
>>> people.php.net for example).
>>
>>
>> people.php.net are php.net karma holders. We have no responsibility to
>> disclose any information about our contributors to anyone.
>> It is however fun to do so, so I created people.php.net listing random
>> info about our contributors. If you can think of other fun things to
>> do with that website, I'd love feedback and contributions!
>>
>> The wiki account system is different. php.net karma holders have
>> access out-of-the-box using their vcs credentials.
>> Then there is a special case where you have to register to the wiki itself.
>> Having a wiki account does nothing out-of-the-box.
>> You have to ask for specific access.
>> Since the inception of the wiki I have been the only one giving out
>> wiki credentials. This has mostly been to outsiders wanting to write
>> RFCs.
>> I have vague memories having given 2-3 people access to
>> https://wiki.php.net/usergroups and similar to docs and so on.
>> These people still cannot vote.
>> A person who maintains popular pecl extension cannot vote either,
>> unless the extension is maintained on the php.net infrastructure (and
>> therefore requiring php.net account) btw.
>>
>> There have been several members from the community that have asked for
>> voting privileges, as per the voting rfc. I have arbitrary approved
>> maybe 3 or 4 over the years. The other 5-10 did not get voting
>> privileges because the authors of the voting rfc didn't care.
>>
>> I have absolutely no interest this voting business and and strongly
>> disagree with the entire voting rfc idea. I would love to get back to
>> http://producingoss.com/en/consensus-democracy.html
>
>
> that's your good right to disagree and I respect your opinion in that regard.
>
> However, as of today, you are the blocking point when it comes to
> improve the wiki RFCs, registration and voting areas.And this is
> really becoming a problem. I am not talking about irregularities and
> the likes and I agree that it may not be fair to start bitching about
> one or another vote, especially for some 1st time voters but oldest
> contributors. While I do see an issue with inactive developers
> suddenly jumping in but not using or contributing to PHP in any form
> since quite long. But this is a totally different issues and I really
> have no idea how to solve that, I do not see it as a big issue either
> so...
>
> However, the RFCs have been abused in many possible ways where I
> thought common sense will make people act fairly and correctly. I was
> wrong. Having simple technical measures to ensure fairness in
> discussions, voting and end of voting periods will prevent some of
> these abuses to happen again. It is possible to achieve that without
> going down a more drastic road (anonymous votes or other more deep
> changes) but will make things work the same way for everyone.
>
> The other problem I see, which becomes a habit for a couple of RFC
> authors, is the quality of the RFC. On one hand we have detailed high
> quality RFC, clear communications and flows and on the other hand,
> incomplete, confusing, lack of communications (aka missing the points
> of a Request for Comments completely). And this is a much more bigger
> worry than anything else. We have to fix that and such RFCs must be
> discarded or simply not accepted to vote unless they actually reach a
> certain quality and will to discuss. I will start another separate
> thread about that.
>
> Now, to be able to actually implement the little technical measure to
> ensure that everyone follows the same rules, I ask you one more time
> to provide the data of the current wiki so patches, changes etc can be
> implemented in a safer way. You know where to reach me to provide it.
> Thanks for your cooperation.
>
> Cheers,
> --
> Pierre
>
> @pierrejoye | http://www.libgd.org