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Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2015 21:04:04 +0100
To: Pascal Chevrel <pascal.chevrel@free.fr>,internals@lists.php.net
Message-ID: <BC2A7F0C-5880-4F5C-80BF-D3539A40F9DD@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] About declare(strict_types = 1)
From: ppetermann80@gmail.com (Peter Petermann)



On March 16, 2015 2:32:39 PM GMT+01:00, Pascal Chevrel <pascal.chevrel@free.fr> wrote:

>It's too late, Bob's Basic STH missed the schedule for PHP 7, it was 
>proposed way too late and the coercive STH RFC has just zero chance to 
>pass, it's too much of a BC break for everybody. The dual mode STH is 
>the only chance to have something for PHP 7 and remain competitive with
Rushing through with an controversial solution, because others didn't make a date seems like such a good plan. 

No one is dying if STH doesn't make it into 7.0.0.

>HHVM, Node.js… that we see people switch to. Baidu switched to HHVM, 
>Wikipedia too, in my country big names switched from PHP to node.js and
>that was not just for performance reasons, it was also for the
>features. 
hhvm offers an alternative php implementation that tries to be compatible,  hack(lang) is where you find the differences you are looking for.  That said, I don't see the sky falling if people who need a specific feature use another tool. The adoption rate of hack is tiny. 

As for nodejs, nodejs is a framework, not a language. Javascript does not offer type hints. And if you look at how to compete with nodejs, then what you should be looking at is what needs to be improved with php to allow frameworks like reactphp to work better. How to improve support for non-blocking io. 

And I dunno, but I don't think that "per file" settings make the callback-heavy code that's typical for non-blocking stuff better, in fact I'm convinced it will add an additional layer of headache. 

>Zeev himself admitted that we need something for PHP 7.
If it is THAT important for PHP 7 (and IMHO it's not) then maybe the timeline for PHP 7 needs to be reevaluated, to make sure all dependencies are the best option and not something rushed in because of ::conflict::. 

>Personnally, I think the dual mode is a very clever way to please all 
>PHP developpers, those that want to use weak typing, those that want to
>use stronger typing and those like me that would continue to use weak 
>typing because it's convenient but would be happy to use STH on very 
>specific parts of his code that would benefit from it.
Personally I think STH is a nice to have, and not worth the confusion that per-file declares create. 

I'd rather see no STH, or either one of the two ways than dual mode. 

regards, 
PP