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Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2015 22:06:26 +0100
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To: Philip Sturgeon <pjsturgeon@gmail.com>
Cc: Anthony Ferrara <ircmaxell@gmail.com>, 
	"internals@lists.php.net" <internals@lists.php.net>
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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] A plea for unity on scalar types
From: pajousek@gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Pavel_Kou=C5=99il?=)

On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 at 10:01 PM, Philip Sturgeon <pjsturgeon@gmail.com> wr=
ote:
> Pavel,
>
> On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 at 3:38 PM, Pavel Kou=C5=99il <pajousek@gmail.com> w=
rote:
>> On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 at 4:45 PM, Anthony Ferrara <ircmaxell@gmail.com> w=
rote:
>>>
>>> But for today, I firmly believe that the Dual-Mode proposal is the
>>> only one that stands a chance of passing. I think it's the best chance
>>> for the language, and it's the only one that tries to unite the
>>> different usages of PHP into a single group, rather than alienating
>>> users.
>>>
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> I see (as a userland developer) these problems with dual mode:
>> - It is a "setting" that changes the language's behavior; I don't
>> think that it matters whether or not it would be an INI setting or the
>> declare() one, because both of them are bad.
>> - It does not "unite different usages of PHP into a single group"; it
>> does exactly the opposite, splitting PHP usage into TWO groups.
>> - Once this dual mode would be introduced to PHP, there would probably
>> be no way of removing it later without massive BC break, once most
>> people would realize that it is really awful to have it in the
>> language.
>>
>> (There's probably more of them, but these are the biggest issues I
>> currently have.)
>>
>> Regards
>> Pavel Kouril
>>
>> --
>> PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List
>> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
>>
>
> Hang on. This is not the time to nitpick things in various RFCs that
> have already been answered time and time again.
>
> An ini setting would be insane because taking an app that works on one
> machine and putting it on another would completely break the app.
> Hello anything using Composer, hello any CMS, hello any system moving
> to a new host that doesn't let you change ini settings, or you dont
> know how.
>
> A declare statement in the top of the file changing how that file
> handles things is hardly a problem, and is exactly how a lot of other
> languages do things. Hello JavaScript.
>
> It seems like you didn't read anything now you're just saying "it's
> bad" a lot. Please don't do that.


Hello,

there may maybe be some misinterpretation of what I'm saying, but I
read everything from the scalar types discussions in the past 2 or 3
months, actually.

I know ini setting is much much worse than this, but this is imho
still bad - the "intent" is pretty much similiar (aka some directive
that changes how code behaves); I've been saying that I disagree with
this approach ever since the Andrea's first Dual Mode was published as
a RFC and I feel I need to bring it up again.

Regards
Pavel Kouril