Newsgroups: php.internals
Path: news.php.net
Xref: news.php.net php.internals:83926
Mailing-List: contact internals-help@lists.php.net; run by ezmlm
Received-SPF: pass (pb1.pair.com: domain zend.com designates 209.85.223.180 as permitted sender)
References: <BAY178-W418C61DF38879BED71640EDE140@phx.gbl>	<3d639901ae85227b219e7ee59b3140fe@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+kxMuQ52SOWp0dP0okVHrb8wF9U5TUX8OcYpNBP4rEPvdrpFA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALrkBjYO0SGXBDiSJhxSpnG80S_qerTLL2SX4vi0WygstnM+gw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAAyV7nFM9fZYs7b+UiWrmHFcNHwqzRKYFgdeimuNTazZvZx2FA@mail.gmail.com>
	<fe4ee2db32d7096f196019d6492f1d90@mail.gmail.com>	<CAAyV7nGg1g_iezQbF5SwL2pocVDPbY5j4BSWqEVXdL28y2TRng@mail.gmail.com>
	<42bc7c079a67fe1aa982b5c55ecc2f16@mail.gmail.com> <CAAyV7nFDenxegkQvf21qfitWzk8GKv8j9OX6Jq8SkyFpDK6Xgg@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAAyV7nFDenxegkQvf21qfitWzk8GKv8j9OX6Jq8SkyFpDK6Xgg@mail.gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Thread-Index: AQGwbbdURx2shUG2o7Zj2Ywptu8MnAHNhHseASj3TG8CBU/YnAHY8IsNAn8zUX0BDEv+qAJWJD9/AgdVbcOczTw0cA==
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2015 22:37:20 +0200
Message-ID: <452b694a394f89662fb1fc7f479be618@mail.gmail.com>
To: Anthony Ferrara <ircmaxell@gmail.com>
Cc: internals@lists.php.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Subject: RE: [PHP-DEV] A different user perspective on scalar type declarations
From: zeev@zend.com (Zeev Suraski)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Anthony Ferrara [mailto:ircmaxell@gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2015 10:24 PM
> To: Zeev Suraski
> Cc: internals@lists.php.net
> Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] A different user perspective on scalar type
> declarations
>
> Zeev,
>
>
> > When I say you need to worry about them a lot less - I mean that you
> > can get 90%+ of the benefits of strict mode, for ALL of your code,
> > with a tiny fraction of the hassle.
> > From past posts, it's very clear you believe that large projects would
> > gradually migrate to being strict across the board.  If we compared
> > the
>
> Well then, you've heard things I've never said.

I'm referring to this:

> A few hundred LOC script would likely never enable strict mode, and would
> be just fine because of it (you can mentally keep a few hundred LOC in
> your head at one time).
>
> The larger the project, the more the contributors, the more the benefits
> to using strict mode. That's not to say that large projects would
> immediately go full strict. It's just pointing out that the tradeoffs
> would need to be weighed by the authors.

The way I read it, "not immediately going full strict" implied they'd
gradually go full strict, as opposed to not at all (in which case saying
"That's not to say that large projects will necessarily want to go full
strict " would have perhaps been more appropriate).  Apologies if I
misunderstood you.

> > Given that I actually ran Magento, Drupal, WordPress and both the
> > Symfony and ZF2 skeleton apps with the new coercive ruleset, and I
> > already know there's no reason at all to be scared.  More on that
> > later today or early tomorrow - running more tests.
>
> They run without triggering E_DEPRECATED errors? Because that means they
> will break with 8 (which by your own words is closer to 2-3 years out than
> 9-
> 10).

Not without, but at least in my testing so far - the things that are picked
up by the coercive rule-set are quite precise and have excellent signal to
noise ratio.  We're still working on the patch so I don't want to provide
the results just yet because they might be bogus, but I'll share them as
soon as they're stable.

Thanks,

Zeev