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Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2015 08:33:38 -0800
Message-ID: <CAEZPtU5JDXrkmAKMCQsFJ_6nes+2yaViSWix9pBjsWfvhTvNGw@mail.gmail.com>
To: Nikita Popov <nikita.ppv@gmail.com>
Cc: Rasmus Lerdorf <rasmus@lerdorf.com>, Sara Golemon <pollita@php.net>, 
	PHP internals <internals@lists.php.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Scalar Type Hints v0.4
From: pierre.php@gmail.com (Pierre Joye)

On Tue, Feb 17, 2015 at 5:05 PM, Nikita Popov <nikita.ppv@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 18, 2015 at 1:53 AM, Rasmus Lerdorf <rasmus@lerdorf.com> wrote:
>
>> On 02/17/2015 04:35 PM, Nikita Popov wrote:
>> > I don't buy into Rasmus arguments about internal functions. They concern
>> > one particular edge case (int->float coercion) and I doubt they have much
>> > relevance if applied to codebases with pervasive use of typehints (where
>> > you can be reasonably sure of the types of your variables). Even if, for
>> > the sake of argument, we acknowledge the concern as valid we should be
>> > discussing that particular case (int->float coercion) rather than
>> dropping
>> > the strict typing for internal functions altogether.
>>
>> int->float is actually secondary to "123"->int. And while they may be
>> edge-cases there are enough of them that we would be pushing people
>> towards casting by default which should be a last-resort thing, not the
>> first thing you do.
>>
>
> The inability to implicitly cast "123" to int is pretty much the KEY
> distinction between weak and strict scalar typehints (those pesky
> value-dependent type checks). If the strict typing mode doesn't offer this,
> what's the point at all?
>
> This is exactly what I fear will happen with an arginfo based approach. If
> even fundamental aspects like the "123" vs 123 (or true vs 1) distinction
> are suppressed for internal functions, this isn't a strict typing mode,
> it's just a weak typing mode with slightly different rules.

I totally agree with you here, and with your next more verbose reply.

I am astonished to see where this discussion simply redo what we
discussed to death already and basically see no progress toward a
compromise but a way to get weak typing in place. I do not see much
value to argue in circle forever and will actually support what I
consider as good once there is a RFC in place. Weak typing only won't
be the one I would choose. I remain a fervent supporter of the
previously proposed dual mode, which actually covers all we need. Yes,
there are implementation details (I repeat: yes, I do consider most of
the raised issues as implementation details), but generally it is the
compromises and way I see as the way to go.

Cheers,
-- 
Pierre

@pierrejoye | http://www.libgd.org