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Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2015 12:59:59 +0000
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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] I quit.
From: rowan.collins@gmail.com (Rowan Collins)

François Laupretre wrote on 16/02/2015 12:27:
>> De : Rowan Collins [mailto:rowan.collins@gmail.com]
>>
>> Please can we take Andrea at her word:
>>
>>   > This isn’t a judgement of the PHP community nor the internals mailing
>> list, you’re all wonderful people and it’s really been a pleasure, and I
>> mean that completely honestly.
>>
>> If people want to express their own frustrations at the community - and
>> do so in a constructive way - then by all means start your own thread.
>> But it's kind of annoying to see everyone leaping to attach motives to
>> Andrea's exit which are completely different from those she stated, just
>> because it fits their world view and gives them an excuse to talk about it.
> You're right. I am probably expressing my own frustration when I imagine that withdrawing four important RFC s a few days before vote ends has little to do with time management issues.
>
> Let's stay politically correct and don't express anything about the atmosphere in the community, which has nothing to do with Andrea's decision. Anthony was more honest when he left, but you're right, that's probably more constructive to see people leave and say nothing. We have so many skilled and motivated internal developers !
>
> Yes, that's frustration. I was just trying to express something beyond 'OK, we understand you're too busy, see you soon', but I am stopping now as you find it *annoying*.

If YOU are frustrated, send a message about YOUR frustration. Yes, I 
think there *might* be more to Andrea's decision that she hasn't 
explicitly mentioned; that might be exactly what you're guessing, but it 
might be something extremely personal which is none of our business.

Saying "that's enough" isn't even a productive comment. Enough what? 
What is it you are asking to happen next?

So, let's take Andrea at her word, and think productively about the 
implications:

Working on core features for PHP is very time-consuming, why is that? 
Off the top of my head...

- There is a lack of expertise at the core level of the code, so 
collaboration on each feature is low. RFCs tend to have a single 
sponsor, who has to see the whole process through to the end.
- The leadership of the language is left to consensus, so that when 
consensus cannot be reached, someone has to take on the role of mediator 
/ chairman / leader for the feature, and try to push through a compromise.
- The RFC process traditionally has only one voting phase, with a 
Proof-Of-Concept patch completed, and voters expecting few 
implementation details to change. So a lot of time has to be committed 
to the details of a feature which might be outright rejected. It might 
be more efficient if the principle of a change, details such as syntax, 
and final implementation, could be considered separate phases.
- The internals list is quite high-volume, and the same points end up 
being raised multiple times, so a feature sponsor has to give the same 
counter-point or explanation each time.

Most of these don't have easy solutions, but hopefully they're specific 
enough points that we can come up with some concrete ideas on how to 
improve things.

Regards,
-- 
Rowan Collins
[IMSoP]