Newsgroups: php.internals Path: news.php.net Xref: news.php.net php.internals:82677 Return-Path: Mailing-List: contact internals-help@lists.php.net; run by ezmlm Delivered-To: mailing list internals@lists.php.net Received: (qmail 93922 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2015 09:44:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO lists.php.net) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 14 Feb 2015 09:44:25 -0000 Authentication-Results: pb1.pair.com header.from=lester@lsces.co.uk; sender-id=unknown Authentication-Results: pb1.pair.com smtp.mail=lester@lsces.co.uk; spf=permerror; sender-id=unknown Received-SPF: error (pb1.pair.com: domain lsces.co.uk from 217.147.176.214 cause and error) X-PHP-List-Original-Sender: lester@lsces.co.uk X-Host-Fingerprint: 217.147.176.214 mail4-2.serversure.net Linux 2.6 Received: from [217.147.176.214] ([217.147.176.214:47288] helo=mail4.serversure.net) by pb1.pair.com (ecelerity 2.1.1.9-wez r(12769M)) with ESMTP id 8E/50-25612-6F81FD45 for ; Sat, 14 Feb 2015 04:44:23 -0500 Received: (qmail 16576 invoked by uid 89); 14 Feb 2015 09:44:19 -0000 Received: by simscan 1.3.1 ppid: 16569, pid: 16572, t: 0.0888s scanners: attach: 1.3.1 clamav: 0.96/m:52/d:10677 Received: from unknown (HELO ?10.0.0.8?) (lester@rainbowdigitalmedia.org.uk@86.189.147.37) by mail4.serversure.net with ESMTPA; 14 Feb 2015 09:44:19 -0000 Message-ID: <54DF18F3.8060409@lsces.co.uk> Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2015 09:44:19 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: internals@lists.php.net References: <5EF29B6C-D35B-47B8-8008-47B207B2840B@ajf.me> <54DE31DC.4090606@lsces.co.uk> <54DE3670.7010408@lsces.co.uk> <54DE50E8.5040107@lsces.co.uk> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV][RFC][VOTE] Group Use Declarations From: lester@lsces.co.uk (Lester Caine) On 13/02/15 21:16, Nikita Nefedov wrote: >> Can't we restore the simple way of working in PHP7 >> where it does not need to wrap around other things quite so closely? > > Hi Lester, > > This way if doing things on php didn't go anywhere, people just stopped > using it because they saw better alternatives. I could accept that statement if there was any actual evidence! The problem today is not 'better alternatives' but rather the new bread of developers who's interest is in the tools themselves rather than actually using the results in practice. The split at the moment is one of usability over language aesthetics. The very fact that 'you don't have to use namespace or strict typing' means that for the majority of users there is no need to change ... except the library developers are continually moving the goal posts so that we HAVE to use some features, or at least be up to speed on the third party use of those features where we ARE reliant on third party libraries for many things. The small stepping stones down a path that is NOT pulling everybody else into the same vision is what is now threatening to blow PHP out of the water. I do really feel that some things are going too far and need their own 'space' along side PHP rather than being forced onto the rest of use who simply want a stable language to work with. PHPNG is the sort of improvement that was needed - speed. Even namespaces are not essential to that target as simply adding a tag to any library function is more than adequate, and even the fact that procedural functions seem to be getting a little more respect shows that totally OO PHP is not yet a user demand. -- Lester Caine - G8HFL ----------------------------- Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk