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Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2015 12:04:21 +0400
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To: Matthew Leverton <leverton@gmail.com>
Cc: Zeev Suraski <zeev@zend.com>, PHP internals <internals@lists.php.net>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c3ef80c3df25050ea337e9
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] [VOTE] Scalar Type Hints
From: dmitry@zend.com (Dmitry Stogov)

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this is more or less true. :(
The proposal is presented in an unfair way to include strict typing without
the ability to vote for weak types only.

Despite of semantic arguments, the implementation is a bit immature and
introduces slowdown for any code without type hints.

Thanks. Dmitry.



On Mon, Feb 9, 2015 at 7:20 AM, Matthew Leverton <leverton@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sun, Feb 8, 2015 at 3:22 PM, Zeev Suraski <zeev@zend.com> wrote:
> > I'm well aware of it as I wrote that policy.  The goal of the policy was
> to
> > prevent a situation where a temporary majority can introduce features
> into
> > the language that would later on be impossible to reverse.  It's not by
> any
> > stretch a good mechanism to solve controversial votes, which again,
> should
> > ideally be avoided as much as possible.  It's just that there isn't a
> better
> > mechanism.
> >
> I know I'm unfairly paraphrasing you, but it sounds like you are
> saying that for things that you don't have strong feelings about, then
> you're fine if the others vote amongst themselves. But for things that
> matter to you, you want to reserve the right to prevent change. Is
> there a way to fairly describe what you consider too controversial to
> vote on?
>
> The problem I see with votes for this type of feature is that you
> probably have a breakdown of something like:
>
> - 10% of people don't want scalar type hints
> - 20% of people want both, but 50% of them would vote for either weak or
> strong
> - 35% of people want strict, but 80% of them are fine with weak
> - 35% of people want weak, but 80% of them are fine with strong
>
> So if a strict-only vote happens first, you get 73% to say yes. If
> weak-only vote happens first, you get 73% to say yes.
>
> (I'm obviously just making up these numbers with no scientific basis,
> but I think the principle is valid.)
>
> The only way to be fair IMO is to hold a vote where you rank those
> four options (weak, strong, both, neither) and hold an instant run-off
> vote where the first majority wins. And if 'neither' wins, then agree
> that the topic cannot be revisited until next major version, so that
> everybody can rest for 5 years. ;)
>
> --
> Matthew Leverton
>
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