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Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2015 07:57:13 +0900
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To: =?UTF-8?Q?Fran=C3=A7ois_Laupretre?= <francois@tekwire.net>, 
	Dmitry Stogov <dmitry@zend.com>
Cc: guilhermeblanco <guilhermeblanco@gmail.com>, PHP Internals <internals@lists.php.net>
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Subject: Re: Design by Contract
From: yohgaki@ohgaki.net (Yasuo Ohgaki)

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Hi Francois,

On Mon, Feb 9, 2015 at 12:43 AM, Fran=C3=A7ois Laupretre <francois@tekwire.=
net>
wrote:

> > De : yohgaki@gmail.com [mailto:yohgaki@gmail.com] De la part de Yasuo
> Ohgaki
> >
> > Since people's preferences are diverse. It might be a good idea having
> pre-vote
> > for designs, then we may have final vote with single design.
> >
> > We need some consensuses even for pre-vote.
> >
> > What do you think?
>
> What I think is that I have written a 600-line RFC, that you refuse to
> comment because you still hope you can impose a D-like syntax by another
> way. I don't agree on a pre-vote on design and, then, care about details,
> because that's just an artefact to get an agreement on D-like syntax befo=
re
> people can read and understand my proposal, and without exploring the
> implications of your design.
>
> Here is a fair way to proceed: I have written an RFC, trying to explore
> honestly every aspects of the design I'm proposing. Now, either you agree=
,
> or you write yours with the same goal in mind. Then, we may choose. That'=
s
> the rule. Saying 'I don't like that' without proposing an alternative is
> not the right way. I won't help you get an a-priori approval, just to say
> thereafter that, whatever problem we find, we must stick with this design
> because it was pre-approved. If you write an RFC and people approve it,
> that's OK.
>
> Anyway, as I think DbC can be implemented without any change in the core,
> I'll probably implement it by myself as a zend extension. So, you can do
> what you want in PHP 7.


I agree. I can also implement basic DbC feature as zend extension. It
will be ugly without parser modification, but the change wouldn't be too
hard.
I'm sure Dmitry would do much better job than me :)

You would like me to write D like version. No problem at all.
If majority/consensus is annotation approach, I don't insist to have
D like proposal. If you would like to choose by vote anyway,  I'll
write/add
RFC with Dmitry's idea in mind.

Dmitry, what is your opinion now?
It's not mandatory, but I still prefer to have D like syntax because users
can code contracts just like PHP code and get all kinds of syntax errors/et=
c
as PHP. Would you like to have D like syntax as vote option or choose with
one of
annotation/D like before vote? (It seems annotation is more popular)
D like design has advantage that internal functions/classes may have
contracts
just like user space. This may help to get better performance also. User
would
get consistent/similar contract errors from internal classes/functions. (I
can imagine
number of people against raising E_WARNING from classes, though)

Guiherme, you have comprehensive annotation implementation.
Could you give us your idea's about DbC and annotation?
Is your idea the same as Francois's?

https://wiki.php.net/rfc/dbc

We don't have much time. I hope we have consensus before deadline.

Thank you.

Regards,

--
Yasuo Ohgaki
yohgaki@ohgaki.net

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