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Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2015 10:49:53 +0100
Message-ID: <CAB6YZuzRoppHeN2MCWD5S+RV=eVexbkCpwo-2PDsqW+xRyd-Tw@mail.gmail.com>
To: Andrea Faulds <ajf@ajf.me>
Cc: PHP Internals <internals@lists.php.net>
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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] [VOTE] Scalar Type Hints
From: pajousek@gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Pavel_Kou=C5=99il?=)

On Sat, Feb 7, 2015 at 11:11 PM, Andrea Faulds <ajf@ajf.me> wrote:
> Hi,
>
>> On 7 Feb 2015, at 22:03, Pavel Kou=C5=99il <pajousek@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Yeah, but you say in the RFC that "With this approach, an argument is
>> only accepted if its type is exactly the same as the parameter." when
>> speaking about C# and Java - which is NOT true.
>
> C# and Java aren=E2=80=99t really considered weakly-typed. Technically th=
ey=E2=80=99re not =E2=80=9Cfully strict=E2=80=9D I guess, but if you were t=
o give example of strictly-typed languages, you=E2=80=99d probably include =
C# and Java in that list - so I did.

C# and Java definitely aren't weakly typed. I never said they are
though? Also, is there a real difference between strict and strong?
Because C# refers to itself as a strongly typed, but you use "strict
typing" everytime you speak about strong typing?

>
> It might be somewhat misleading. Really, what=E2=80=99s =E2=80=9Cweak=E2=
=80=9D and what=E2=80=99s =E2=80=9Cstrict=E2=80=9D is rather subjective: C =
is sometimes considered weak, sometimes strict. I=E2=80=99d say it=E2=80=99=
s more =E2=80=9Cweak=E2=80=9D because all sorts of definitely wrong convers=
ions are allowed implicitly and merely generate warnings. C# and Java are m=
ore careful here, so I=E2=80=99d say they=E2=80=99re =E2=80=9Cstrict=E2=80=
=9D even though I suppose they do have a degree of weak typing.
>
>> Also, there's no need to mention
>> float -> int, because that one is definitely wrong. But for the int
>> (and long, etc) -> float (and double) - how do the languages you
>> mentioned in the RFC handle that conversion?
>
> From Microsoft=E2=80=99s documentation that you linked, it sounds like th=
ey just always convert and never error, so you=E2=80=99d get data loss in s=
ome cases (just like you do in PHP with an explicit cast).
>
> I am familiar with other languages, I just disagree with their approach.
>

It's not somewhat misleading, it's 100% misleading - because you state
that it acts like in Java and C#, but it doesn't. Also, are there any
strongly typed language that implement strong/strict typing the way
you want to do it in PHP?

>> And as I said myself
>> multiple times in the past, the declare syntax IS just ugly (and
>> changing how code works by writing one line is an ugly principle as
>> well, IMHO). :(
>
> I prefer this approach to the inconsistency the other approaches suggeste=
d thus far lead to.
>

The thing is, you cannot please everyone. When you try to please
anyone, you usally end up with something that has flaws for everyone
to some degree. :(