Newsgroups: php.internals
Path: news.php.net
Xref: news.php.net php.internals:82048
Mailing-List: contact internals-help@lists.php.net; run by ezmlm
Received-SPF: pass (pb1.pair.com: domain gmail.com designates 209.85.223.173 as permitted sender)
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <CA+9eiLvfn570PY+9yxvN8nDODyvXwFKE--LaYOm5-1RLLd7DvA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+9eiLuNjTa8JzBgnZE5iuv5BZ4Kw4Ehk1ivxPUetNSmZ43JMw@mail.gmail.com>
 <54D37D41.2030706@hoa-project.net> <CAGa2bXa_E27ZK89j-C3c0-Kj8pDY4EN_8U6SQC2K19SNm46wqg@mail.gmail.com>
 <54D470FA.6000303@hoa-project.net> <CAGa2bXaGE3QWjGxvRadLG0btA5wd1u5bZ=AAo6WQHE_Uek8iaw@mail.gmail.com>
 <02d301d041f3$0c5f3990$251dacb0$@tekwire.net> <CAGa2bXafsdmTPutaYP_oyX9CbjaRcJyqk0r3_v-ud=yCiQT_SA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGa2bXZnBWoL7NogbQCrfy-80G7xWoD_EJT3KH3v9aPiJ68Csw@mail.gmail.com>
 <031501d04217$b393bff0$1abb3fd0$@tekwire.net> <CA+9eiLvfn570PY+9yxvN8nDODyvXwFKE--LaYOm5-1RLLd7DvA@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2015 10:12:31 -0500
Message-ID: <CAFp73XsSEBubkVXeXary2tLbxDoAZntdZz5N6Y1x0p7bGq_6Rg@mail.gmail.com>
To: Dmitry Stogov <dmitry@zend.com>
Cc: =?UTF-8?Q?Fran=C3=A7ois_Laupretre?= <francois@tekwire.net>, 
	Yasuo Ohgaki <yohgaki@ohgaki.net>, Pierre Joye <pierre.php@gmail.com>, 
	"Ivan Enderlin @ Hoa" <ivan.enderlin@hoa-project.net>, PHP Internals <internals@lists.php.net>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113ff7a4b3f432050e6cdaba
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Design by Contract
From: guilhermeblanco@gmail.com ("guilhermeblanco@gmail.com")

--001a113ff7a4b3f432050e6cdaba
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dmitry,

Doc comments are terrible. I really want you to spend some time looking at
what we had to do inside of Doctrine Annotations to make it work. We have
to token_get_all() the file to be processed and track for "use"s to allow
importing inside of doc blocks. We also had to build a top-down recursive
parser to make it work... don't you think it's too much? As one of the
library maintainers, I do, by heart.

We have until Mar 15 to work on something and propose. I can work on it
without any problems, but as an enthusiast of PHP, it's very frustrating
that I spend time to make PHP better and none even care to review PRs or
simply ignore messages on php-internals. If anyone compromise to review,
I'd do my best to get it ready yesterday if it was possible!

Thanks,

On Fri, Feb 6, 2015 at 9:40 AM, Dmitry Stogov <dmitry@zend.com> wrote:

> I see your point, and, of course, it makes sense, but it also means that =
no
> new PHP7 features might not be used in these frameworks and libraries for=
 a
> long time. Should we stop add new features in major releases?
>
> As I said, according to DbC, I'm not sure if it should be defined on
> language level. Doc comments or annotations with external tools might be
> good enough.
>
> Thanks. Dmitry.
>
> On Fri, Feb 6, 2015 at 5:17 PM, Fran=C3=A7ois Laupretre <francois@tekwire=
.net>
> wrote:
>
> > > De : yohgaki@gmail.com [mailto:yohgaki@gmail.com] De la part de Yasuo
> > Ohgaki
> >
> > > Personally, backward compatibility is not too important.
> > > PHP5 is dead by PHP 7.2 release... This is the reason why.
> > > It's only 3 years later, only 2 years later after PHP 7.0 release.
> >
> > That's where we disagree, as I think it's most important.
> >
> > Thinking that PHP 5 is dead in 3 years is extremely na=C3=AFve IMO. You
> > probably didn't live the PHP 4/5 migration but I guess we won't have mo=
re
> > than 30 % of production servers under PHP 7 in 2018, just due to the
> delays
> > of distros, hosting companies, and others.
> >
> > Now, suppose you're distributing a library or a framework, like Symfony=
,
> > Doctrine, etc. Someone tells you : "Here's the new DbC feature. You can
> use
> > it but this implies splitting your code to two independent branches and
> > maintain them in parallel until you have no PHP 5 customer anymore.".
> What
> > do you think you'll do (or won't do) ?
> >
> > @Pierre,@Dmitry : you have a better vision than mine on the migration
> > process. What's your opinion on forcing software developers to maintain
> two
> > separate branches ?
> >
> > Once again, the conditions in @assert lines ARE PHP code. There's no ne=
w
> > syntax. There is no real difference between writing 'assert(<condition>=
)'
> > and '@assert <condition>', especially if the require/ensure blocks shou=
ld
> > contain 'assert' statements only.
> >
> > > What I believe is not important to you. I could be wrong.
> >
> > It is important. As I may be wrong too.
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Fran=C3=A7ois
> >
> >
>



--=20
Guilherme Blanco
MSN: guilhermeblanco@hotmail.com
GTalk: guilhermeblanco
Toronto - ON/Canada

--001a113ff7a4b3f432050e6cdaba--