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Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2015 00:32:58 +0000
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References: <8703B53E-2C4A-4AC6-95C4-D4F19C6D5221@ajf.me> <D5E65B07-2366-4A14-97BF-780267200717@zend.com> <DFBE8CD2-F740-4399-A44E-7AC0625ECEA2@ajf.me> <CAN383GD6K8YBnvZDyq4STgCAyQA_PUdJeFdXhgw_v7XezALkFw@mail.gmail.com> <D303B26E-AC30-4FFB-AAF1-080363243EDD@ajf.me> <CAN383GDSqwAkRd-m-3Yo_Vac-TjUXF5xo0tqTXaSKpiX3xLhug@mail.gmail.com>
To: Andi Gutmans <andi@zend.com>
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] [VOTE] Scalar Type Hints
From: ajf@ajf.me (Andrea Faulds)

Hi,

> On 6 Feb 2015, at 00:24, Andi Gutmans <andi@zend.com> wrote:
>=20
> Oh come on... You're taking me a bit too literally. Your proposal =
isn't
> Java-like strict typing... I even said that.

I still disagree with the sentiment, but never mind. I realise it was =
just a joke.

>> No, I don=E2=80=99t think that=E2=80=99s fair. I=E2=80=99d be against =
holding a vote on strict
>> types only for the same reason: the community is divided. Letting one =
side
>> =E2=80=9Cwin" is simply unfair on everyone else.
>=20
> I don't understand that statement. You mean it's not OK for any side =
to win
> unless you win? Or are you saying that you tried to strike a balance
> between the two parties which you hoped everyone could rally around?

The latter.

> What
> if they can't? It's all or nothing? Btw, not trying to be facetious =
but
> really trying to understand where you're coming from.

I just don=E2=80=99t feel comfortable if only one camp is satisfied. It =
doesn=E2=80=99t seem fair. While first-past-the-post politics is =
=E2=80=9Cwinner takes it all=E2=80=9D (usually, anyway=E2=80=A6 but =
that=E2=80=99s way off topic), the design of the PHP programming =
language shouldn=E2=80=99t be. Compromise doesn=E2=80=99t lead to ideal =
solutions, sure, but it does lead to more people being happy than =
otherwise, if it=E2=80=99s a good compromise.

>> To quote myself in the Scalar Type Hints thread, here=E2=80=99s a =
rough tally of
>> who was in favour of what in the v0.1 thread (I think =E2=80=9Cyourself=
=E2=80=9D was Zeev
>> in that context):
>=20
> Zeev and I aren't twins (thank god for him) and aren't always in =
agreement
> on such topics. Looks like I am not on that list. Don't see him either
> btw=E2=80=A6

huh?

Maybe you misunderstood me. I meant that in that list in the quote, the =
word =E2=80=9Cyourself=E2=80=9D was referring to Zeev, since that=E2=80=99=
s who I was responding to in the original email (I think). I don=E2=80=99t=
 think you were in that discussion - maybe you were and I missed you.

> Anyway, I think I need to sleep on it... I understand what you're =
trying to
> do. It's definitely not a crazy strict type hinting approach (which =
would
> be very bad)... But I find elements of it challenging=E2=80=A6

I also have some gripes with this RFC - declare() isn=E2=80=99t the =
nicest of things to have to type on every file. But, I think it seems to =
work out better overall than all the numerous other proposals I=E2=80=99ve=
 seen so far, and that=E2=80=99s why I like it.

I also need sleep.

Goodnight!

--
Andrea Faulds
http://ajf.me/