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In-Reply-To: <8703B53E-2C4A-4AC6-95C4-D4F19C6D5221@ajf.me>
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2015 15:22:26 -0800
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To: Andrea Faulds <ajf@ajf.me>
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] [VOTE] Scalar Type Hints
From: andi@zend.com (Andi Gutmans)

I have to say I=E2=80=99m pretty disappointed at the opening of the =
vote.=20
We had a pretty good RFC (thank you) for weak type hinting which was =
aligned with the spirit of PHP and everyone was able to rally around it.
This has now been morphed into something very hard to swallow and IMO =
having such a declare(=E2=80=A6) syntax will be ridiculed by the broader =
app dev community until the end of time=E2=80=A6 But even that syntax =
aside (it=E2=80=99s only syntax after all), I think we lost the ability =
to reach consensus on something so important to everyone which we =
haven=E2=80=99t been able to come to agreement on for over 10 years. =
Finally it was there, in reach and you made a 180 degree turn.

I think it=E2=80=99d be so much easier for us to implement weak type =
hinting. Have everyone rally around it. Be happy and then learn and see =
whether an additional mechanism is really necessary. We could even add =
an E_STRICT_TYPES error_reporting flag to help folks =E2=80=9Cdebug=E2=80=9D=
 their code if they so wish to see if there are any hotspots in their =
code they may want to take a look at - again not necessarily an error =
but maybe a debugging tool.

But net, net - why not just implement the thing everyone can agree on. =
Have something really good in the spirit of the PHP Language for PHP 7 =
and learn how people leverage that=E2=80=A6 The reality is that for the =
majority of the Web community =E2=80=9C1=E2=80=9D coming in from HTTP =
should be accepted as a 1. Period.

I voted =E2=80=9Cno=E2=80=9D but I will vote =E2=80=9Cyes=E2=80=9D for =
the competing RFC which is 80% of your RFC. Why are we not given that =
option??????

Andi


> On Feb 5, 2015, at 12:14 PM, Andrea Faulds <ajf@ajf.me> wrote:
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> Good evening,
>=20
> At long last, I=E2=80=99m going to put the RFC to a vote. It=E2=80=99s =
been long enough - I don=E2=80=99t think there needs to be, or will be, =
much further discussion.
>=20
> I=E2=80=99d like to make sure that everyone voting understands the RFC =
fully. Please read the RFC in full: the details are important. And if  =
anyone has any questions or uncertainties, please ask them before =
voting. I am very happy to answer them.
>=20
> I would urge everyone who wants type hints to vote for this RFC. It is =
not a perfect solution, but there can be no perfect solution to this =
issue. However, I think it is better than most of the alternatives =
suggested thus far - see the rationale section, and previous =
discussions. Crucially, this RFC would keep PHP a weakly-typed language, =
and not force either strict typing, nor weak typing, on anyone who does =
not want it. It would allow the addition of type hints to existing =
codebases. It would not create a situation where userland functions are =
strict yet internal functions are not, because the strict mode affects =
both. I=E2=80=99ve tested the implementation myself on my own code, and =
it worked well, providing benefits other proposals would not have given =
(see my previous post about my experiences).
>=20
> Voting starts today (2015-02-05) and ends in two weeks=E2=80=99 time =
(2015-02-19). In addition to the vote on the main RFC, there is also a =
vote on the type aliases issue, and a vote to reserve the type names for =
future RFCs=E2=80=99 sake if this RFC fails.
>=20
> The RFC can be found here, and it contains a voting widget: =
https://wiki.php.net/rfc/scalar_type_hints
>=20
> Thank you for your time.
>=20
> --
> Andrea Faulds
> http://ajf.me/
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> --
> PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List
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>=20