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Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2014 21:42:52 +0200
Message-ID: <b5c38ff73acf6a79f2541dd693d5366f@mail.gmail.com>
To: Adam Harvey <adam@adamharvey.name>
Cc: PHP Internals <internals@lists.php.net>
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Subject: RE: [PHP-DEV] On the road to PHP 5.7 , or not ?
From: zeev@zend.com (Zeev Suraski)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Adam Harvey [mailto:adam@adamharvey.name]
> Sent: Monday, December 15, 2014 8:06 PM
> To: Zeev Suraski
> Cc: PHP Internals
> Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] On the road to PHP 5.7 , or not ?
>
> On 12 December 2014 at 23:19, Zeev Suraski <zeev@zend.com> wrote:
> > 3.  Last (and probably least) - a 5.7 that breaks compatibility is
> > inconsistent with our version strategy, that suggests 5.7 should be
> > fully compatible with 5.6.
>
> Whoa =E2=80=94 I'm not talking about breaking compatibility. I'm talking =
about
> generating deprecation warnings on things we know are going to break in
> PHP 7.

Ok, that's borderline breaking compatibility if we want people to actually
notice it (otherwise it'd be hidden by default settings).  But I admit
that's nitpicking, withdrawn :)

Anyway, the #1 (literally) in my email was that the OP (Julien) clearly had
a different 5.7 in mind than what you're describing.

> As I said, 5.7 wouldn't break anything, to my mind. The point is to
> provide a
> way for users to get a heads up on what things they need to be looking
> into
> to either migrate to PHP 7, or have a single code base that runs on both
> PHP
> 5 and 7, depending on their needs.
>
> The Python experience suggests that both of these cases _need_ to be
> supported, and well. Why wouldn't we =E2=80=94 the people best placed to =
do so =E2=80=94
> provide the tooling to do that as part of the runtime?
>
> The strawman version of your position seems to be that users are going to
> just migrate to PHP 7 en masse, and that they'll be happy with their code
> breaking to tell them what to fix. I'm not sure there's any history in PH=
P
> or
> other languages that suggests that's really what will happen, and I think
> we're doing our users a disservice if we don't make the path to having a
> mixed 5/7 code base as easy as possible.

I don't think people will migrate to PHP 7 en-masse.  Our past experience
with major versions (and even minor ones) doesn't support this thesis -
it'll take time.  But I do think that people who decide it's worth their
while to migrate, will migrate and take the pain that it takes to make the
necessary changes.  The extra pain associated with migrating to an interim
version - that does nothing but spew warnings in the right places -and
obviously doesn't have any of the other features of 7 - doesn't seem to be =
a
worthwhile experience for most users.

Zeev