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Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2014 09:19:26 +0200
Message-ID: <cca63350a40e7c9a9d7fbca3f836ac31@mail.gmail.com>
To: Levi Morrison <levim@php.net>
Cc: Julien Pauli <jpauli@php.net>, PHP Internals <internals@lists.php.net>
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Subject: RE: [PHP-DEV] On the road to PHP 5.7 , or not ?
From: zeev@zend.com (Zeev Suraski)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: morrison.levi@gmail.com [mailto:morrison.levi@gmail.com] On
> Behalf Of Levi Morrison
> Sent: Friday, December 12, 2014 10:00 PM
> To: Zeev Suraski
> Cc: Julien Pauli; PHP Internals
> Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] On the road to PHP 5.7 , or not ?
>
> >> - If we go for 5.7 :
> >> We could release it this summer (2015) , but that would mean that 7.0
> >> wouldn't come before summer 2016.
> >> Releasing a 5.7 will lean the release cycle curve, but it is not
> >> mandatory, that should be debatted.
> >
> > A 5.7 that pushes 7.0 into Summer 2016 is IMHO a strategic mistake,
> > but regardless I think the discussion is moot.  We've already decided
> > we're aiming for a 2015 PHP 7.0 release, and should stick to that plan.
>
> Assuming we do a PHP 5.7 as I outlined previously, it shouldn't take
> anything
> more than a few hours here and there by a release manager and a tiny bit
> of
> extra work for a few RFC authors. It's just normal bug fixes, version
> bump,
> and compatibility stuff for PHP 7. As long as we keep features out of PHP
> 5.7
> it should not delay a PHP 7 release.

Levi, Andrea, Adam, and others that suggested we can do 5.7 in parallel
while sticking to the 7.0 timeline:

1.  I was replying to Julien.  Julien said in at least 3 different places in
his email that if we do 5.7, we'll clearly not be doing 7.0 in 2015 and it
will clearly mean delaying 7.0 by a year.  If you disagree, you should be
replying to and discussing with him, not me.  Perhaps Julien and you have
different ideas about what 5.7 is;  Even though it's not explicitly
mentioned in his email, it certainly sounds that in his mind, 5.7 is just as
much of a release as 5.6 or 5.5 were.

2.  My position about 5.7 that's minimally different from 5.6 and just
'helps migration', is that it's practically useless.  Users won't go through
the headache of hopping through two versions, for some supposed unknown
benefits.  PHP 7 breakage is going to be fairly localized to specific
areas - not so much the engine changes which barely breaks anything.  So if
5.7 'breaks' the same areas that 7.0 does (keywords, warnings in the right
places, etc.) - migrating to it would essentially be as painful (or
painless) as migrating to 7.0.  In other words, no benefits to doing this
extra step from the point of view of most users.

3.  Last (and probably least) - a 5.7 that breaks compatibility is
inconsistent with our version strategy, that suggests 5.7 should be fully
compatible with 5.6.

All in all, whether it's a feature release or an empty shell with just 7.0's
compatibility breakages, I don't see how 5.7 makes sense.

Zeev