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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] PHPDBG nonsense (Was: Re: [PHP-CVS] com php-src: Made
 phpdbg compatible with new engine: ...)
From: smalyshev@sugarcrm.com (Stas Malyshev)

Hi!

> Just a minor question, Derick. If you care about phpdbg, why are you
> only dropping any comment about it by the time it got into php-src
> repo? It’s known that all the development currently (except for
> master, but that just was a merge and then a pure rewrite on top of
> that merge, nothing related to the protocol) is going on in
> krakjoe/phpdbg github repo. There was now an xml-protocol branch for
> three weeks before it got merged into krakjoe/phpdbg#master. You had
> vast time to notice it and complain before, if you’d really have
> cared.

I would like to weigh in here. If we're talking about things in PHP core
repo, "we did it somewhere in public repo and nobody complained" is not
a good stance. People do literally hundreds of things around PHP in
public places, but not everything is part of PHP core. phpdbg now is.
That involves not only good parts (by-default acceptance by millions of
PHP users) but some obligations - like proper discussion and
notification. Of course, since master is not stable yet, we have
somewhat relaxed rules there, but even then introducing new debugging
protocol into PHP core seems to be something that warrants some
notification. As a person who spent significant time on implementing and
maintaining one of PHP debugging solutions in the past, I, for example,
would be interested to take a look into what is being checked into core
repo in this regard. However, the first note I see about this happening
is the commit messages. And that takes us back to old and not-so-good
"check in first, discuss later" times. With project of the size of PHP,
it having good process matters no less than having good code.

So saying "we had this branch for whole three weeks before merging it
into PHP repo" is not really saying much.

That said, we are where we are, and I think it would be great if this
would somehow server as a starting point for developing a unified
protocol for debugging PHP. There are a number of good tools for
debugging PHP, and it would be a pity if everybody invented their own
protocols and required to install half-dozen of extensions to be
compatible with all tools doing the same in slightly different way.
We have so many unification efforts with PSR and the spec and so on, I'm
pretty sure we can make a protocol that would be workable for all,
debugging PHP is not exactly rocket surgery and there are not that many
things there that we couldn't find a common ground.

-- 
Stanislav Malyshev, Software Architect
SugarCRM: http://www.sugarcrm.com/