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Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2014 15:46:33 +0200
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To: =?UTF-8?Q?Johannes_Schl=C3=BCter?= <johannes@schlueters.de>
Cc: Ferenc Kovacs <tyra3l@gmail.com>, 
	"guilhermeblanco@gmail.com" <guilhermeblanco@gmail.com>, Andrea Faulds <ajf@ajf.me>, Sara Golemon <php@golemon.com>, 
	PHP internals <internals@lists.php.net>
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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] Move pecl_sync to core
From: jpauli@php.net (Julien Pauli)

On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 3:08 PM, Johannes Schl=C3=BCter
<johannes@schlueters.de> wrote:
> On Wed, 2014-10-01 at 14:26 +0200, Ferenc Kovacs wrote:
>> .
>> personally I think that a pecl extension needs to have stronger argument=
s
>> to be bundled with php-src than the fact that it would probably create a
>> bit more exposure for the ext.
>>
>
> Fully agree and mind this:
>
> For an average user it doesn't really make a difference if we bundle it
> or not - linux distributions move even bundled extensions into own
> packages and package pecl ones, too. On Windows installers bundle pecl
> things too.
>
> For the extension maintainer not being bundled has the benefit of having
> its own release cycle. They are not bound to core PHP's rules and add
> minor features as they like and roll bug fixes as needed, while even
> fixes are simpler - they don't have to merge between as many branches.
>
> For core PHP having it in PECL has the benefit that a showstopper in the
> extension won't stop the PHP release. If the extension takes a week more
> that is fine.
>
> One might say that is a downside of using pecl that less people test it
> and in core the extension would receive more attention but I seriously
> doubt that many core developers enable all extensions (lester i.e.
> rightfully complains about the lack of attention on firebird)
>
> Now looking at this specific thing: PHP is a shared nothing environment
> for handling web requests. By having the isolation between request
> containers we can easily scale PHP by adding more machines, which is
> easy as we don't share state. sync does the opposite, its purpose is to
> break this isolation and offering a way to make request dependent on
> each other. There are cases where this is useful and it is great that we
> have a module with this option but in my opinion is not what PHP core
> should do. And yes, we have sysvmsg, sysvsem and sysvshm in the core
> distributions, but in my opinion more due to the fact that they predate
> pecl by a few years.

That's a good sum-up.
Locking is the opposite of PHP model, which is based on non-locking
model, fire-and-forget , scale easilly

And seriously, if you need locking, mutexes etc... in PHP, then you
should probably write your stuff in C or Java. The PHP engine can't
fully support such concepts to provide them to userland, or at least
it won't be cheap in human effort to have such a thing reach a stable
state so that we can ship it into PHP.

This is not a troll, or a "go away from PHP", please don't feel
offended , but PHP is just not designed to do that, this is not the
language you'll use when you face such problems. PHP is mature, but
still has a target, don't target something its not been designed for.



Julien.Pauli