Newsgroups: php.internals
Path: news.php.net
Xref: news.php.net php.internals:76080
Return-Path: <tjerk.meesters@gmail.com>
Mailing-List: contact internals-help@lists.php.net; run by ezmlm
Delivered-To: mailing list internals@lists.php.net
Received: (qmail 75481 invoked from network); 24 Jul 2014 22:51:31 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO lists.php.net) (127.0.0.1)
  by localhost with SMTP; 24 Jul 2014 22:51:31 -0000
Authentication-Results: pb1.pair.com header.from=tjerk.meesters@gmail.com; sender-id=pass
Authentication-Results: pb1.pair.com smtp.mail=tjerk.meesters@gmail.com; spf=pass; sender-id=pass
Received-SPF: pass (pb1.pair.com: domain gmail.com designates 209.85.192.177 as permitted sender)
X-PHP-List-Original-Sender: tjerk.meesters@gmail.com
X-Host-Fingerprint: 209.85.192.177 mail-pd0-f177.google.com  
Received: from [209.85.192.177] ([209.85.192.177:41845] helo=mail-pd0-f177.google.com)
	by pb1.pair.com (ecelerity 2.1.1.9-wez r(12769M)) with ESMTP
	id DC/06-55539-2FD81D35 for <internals@lists.php.net>; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 18:51:30 -0400
Received: by mail-pd0-f177.google.com with SMTP id p10so4496312pdj.36
        for <internals@lists.php.net>; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 15:51:32 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=gmail.com; s=20120113;
        h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc
         :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to;
        bh=wY7aVNLKQbm1eOBHzXLLfed1KjrsF/rQNWnhGfZWO4U=;
        b=T9z1FDqzNXTSCeW0pMb7x1cd9fs4EKCPVJBLpIPSjDNFGNBDQvItOkRPv4go5wfUgL
         eKOeQqC8+dTEoDyxeemA60SLeDp+Dc24lPUSBhF1ZMYhc89VvTPMp8DVo6rV39leXf1H
         c8XFwN+m1ok6c0EMWs1sldLw4C5Y0Ve3tHv1TzpheGWODzeIYCJLj2QKVgpEk8PJzlw3
         MfHjGMQt7tpdOaTonUTtWT+OA3BniwmoqgjQ+2YlyNHygwJ9fLteeXpTSzSyavsigUxj
         0ML1W04x1fkJ2MrRkrPhvB4+eez9D7fFwsgsG1JISrt5Pl0QtCvG6TVEemI+jHu84WFS
         gauQ==
X-Received: by 10.70.34.103 with SMTP id y7mr14249182pdi.37.1406242292488;
        Thu, 24 Jul 2014 15:51:32 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [192.168.1.103] (bb121-7-198-24.singnet.com.sg. [121.7.198.24])
        by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id v4sm8955130pdo.6.2014.07.24.15.51.29
        for <multiple recipients>
        (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128);
        Thu, 24 Jul 2014 15:51:31 -0700 (PDT)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\))
In-Reply-To: <CA+9eiLsbMQmRyF7n1armXbe9nTDqVEQ7V7pVFo3h+zKO4tTjvQ@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2014 06:51:26 +0800
Cc: Kris Craig <kris.craig@gmail.com>,
 Pierre Joye <pierre.php@gmail.com>,
 PHP Internals <internals@lists.php.net>,
 Stanislav Malyshev <smalyshev@sugarcrm.com>,
 Zeev Suraski <zeev@zend.com>,
 Nikita Popov <nikita.ppv@gmail.com>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Message-ID: <90F9AEE8-69E1-4E7F-BC7D-1B36D796055A@gmail.com>
References: <b39ebab3d19d76cda9bafa25919c0e67@mail.gmail.com> <53CF4146.5080800@sugarcrm.com> <ea7a80e05193b8a055747d8cee88a45f@mail.gmail.com> <CA+9eiLtYT_DSE1yu2KEWiHc=AVbG0WXYCUQBBcvWp6=RyNA=WQ@mail.gmail.com> <CAF+90c-08VYr+GudtXUjTTjkO383zBe+NC+tqbx9r1g7AB3Gog@mail.gmail.com> <CA+9eiLsNbtYEeAq9wN2ChT+cs4Tdcd-7j05EyGMwnva-Rx_9_g@mail.gmail.com> <CAEZPtU5HsJZ_pPw-JsrMfCJL=EdGbmw-2JZiTbSRY18UZQJTAA@mail.gmail.com> <CA+9eiLu7n+Lsunu_qp3SQbzeLVKB9bxDtW6MXGeUWMWRcoioQQ@mail.gmail.com> <CAKOpQSwB7WH2K+bvXuvSxUvo0frkBW6wYqYgsBuUcDYOqVMfeA@mail.gmail.com> <CA+9eiLsbMQmRyF7n1armXbe9nTDqVEQ7V7pVFo3h+zKO4tTjvQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: Dmitry Stogov <dmitry@zend.com>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6)
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: Move phpng to master
From: tjerk.meesters@gmail.com (Tjerk Meesters)

Hi Dmitry,

On 25 Jul, 2014, at 6:09 am, Dmitry Stogov <dmitry@zend.com> wrote:

> any one may vote according to their thoughts
> I'm not going to persuade any one.
> I already know the opinion of the majority.
>=20
> Unfortunately, now many people lessen to the guys who speaks a lot.
> I  was never able to do it :),  but ... look into results we provide.
> They are more expressive than any words.

First of all, kudos for all the hard you and the team have been putting =
into this :)

=46rom a developer=92s point of view it would be nice to see a write-up =
of some of the changes that were made to the API's; I=92m currently =
aware of the array (hash) API changes which are definitely an =
improvement over the old one, but there may be more that could also use =
an =93idiom conversion guide=94.


>=20
> Thanks. Dmitry,
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> On Fri, Jul 25, 2014 at 1:39 AM, Kris Craig <kris.craig@gmail.com> =
wrote:
>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 1:37 PM, Dmitry Stogov <dmitry@zend.com> =
wrote:
>>=20
>>> one week - two weeks - months - years.
>>> I'll wait.
>>> I know what I'm doing. I'll make it.
>>>=20
>>> Dmitry.
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> On Fri, Jul 25, 2014 at 12:26 AM, Pierre Joye <pierre.php@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> On Jul 24, 2014 10:13 PM, "Dmitry Stogov" <dmitry@zend.com> wrote:
>>>>>=20
>>>>> agree,
>>>>>=20
>>>>> I just don't see any blockers, except for Pierre.
>>>>=20
>>>> Come on Dmitry, I am not the only who has asked that.
>>>>=20
>>>=20
>>=20
>> Just to throw in my usual two-cents, it seems to me that this RFC is =
very
>> premature.  It's the same sort of over-eagerness I saw in the =
front-page
>> news post a few weeks back.  I understand what you guys are trying to
>> accomplish and I applaud you for it, but as far as I can see, it's =
still
>> quite a ways away from being ready for prime time.  And yet, you seem =
to be
>> acting like it's already there.
>>=20
>> Aside from the code needing to be ready/tested, you also need to have =
a
>> more matured collaboration with community folks outside your project =
like
>> Pierre, which at the moment appears to be downright hostile.  Even if =
the
>> code looked great and everything else was in place, I would never =
vote to
>> switch over to such a drastic new schema when there's this much =
animosity
>> and controversy surrounding it.  I keep reading complaints about =
questions
>> being ignored and conflicting stories about secrecy and process.  I =
also
>> think there's some merit to the concern raised about the ambiguity =
being a
>> prelude to patches being rejected over trivial concerns.
>>=20
>> I think you guys need to slow down and mend a few fences if you want =
to
>> make this happen.  As much as I like the goals of this project, I'm =
forced
>> to vote -1 for now, as well.  I just think you're jumping the gun =
when
>> there are too many unanswered questions/concerns still out there.
>>=20
>> --Kris
>>=20
>>=20


Best,
  Tjerk