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Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 18:03:55 +0200
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To: Xinchen Hui <laruence@gmail.com>, PHP internals <internals@lists.php.net>
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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: Move phpng to master
From: pierre.php@gmail.com (Pierre Joye)

On Mon, Jul 21, 2014 at 5:36 PM, Xinchen Hui <laruence@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> =E5=8F=91=E8=87=AA=E6=88=91=E7=9A=84 iPad
>
> =E5=9C=A8 2014=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=8821=E6=97=A5=EF=BC=8C23:30=EF=BC=8CPierre=
 Joye <pierre.php@gmail.com> =E5=86=99=E9=81=93=EF=BC=9A
>
>
> On Jul 21, 2014 5:28 PM, "Xinchen Hui" <laruence@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Or you suggest we stop the current work to waiting them come their self?
>
> This is exactly what you have done. So what?
>
> But no, talking for me (and a couple of other), I have listed what I woul=
d
> like to see before I even consider something else than -1.
>
> With all respects,   I think you are too strict on phpng

I am not strict but I am realistic, to avoid a total failure with php-next.

> We all hope php to get better, for now I really care about performance

Right, we all care about php. The question is more about how we care
about its future and how to get everyone involved and get PHP cleaner,
better and easier to maintain.

> We are loosing users who switch to hhvm for performance. Phpng will chang=
e
> the current embarrasse situation to us

That's not what I see but for very few users. Visibility, cleaner (or
less ugly) code base, better communication with the developers, etc.
are more the points why some moves to hhvm. Some features we rejected
in the past (strict hinting for method/function signature f.e., hack)
are other reasons mentioned very often.

Also keep in mind that I do love the performance improvements brought
by phpng. It is really awesome. And again, thanks you guys for this
effort.

However it is critical, I repeat, critical, to keep other goals in
mind for php-next. You forgot them for the last six months but it is
too late. However if things go like Zend plans, it will be too late,
and we will fail, miserably.

I also talked to many very large PHP users in the last two months. As
they all care about performance, it is not really their issue right
now with php. One reason is that PHP rarely causes actual bottlenecks
in their apps. But they have other worries, one of them is the code
quality of the PHP core, which is by far not as good as it should be
for the leading web programming language. And they expect the next
major version to fix that. Not only to be more confident about the PHP
implementation but also to ease contributions or extensions
implementations. PHPNG solves none of these issues, in contrary.

Cheers,
--=20
Pierre

@pierrejoye | http://www.libgd.org