Newsgroups: php.internals,php.webmaster Path: news.php.net Xref: news.php.net php.internals:74616 php.webmaster:19055 Return-Path: Mailing-List: contact internals-help@lists.php.net; run by ezmlm Delivered-To: mailing list internals@lists.php.net Received: (qmail 30219 invoked from network); 29 May 2014 08:21:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO lists.php.net) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 29 May 2014 08:21:45 -0000 Authentication-Results: pb1.pair.com header.from=smalyshev@sugarcrm.com; sender-id=pass Authentication-Results: pb1.pair.com smtp.mail=smalyshev@sugarcrm.com; spf=pass; sender-id=pass Received-SPF: pass (pb1.pair.com: domain sugarcrm.com designates 108.166.43.115 as permitted sender) X-PHP-List-Original-Sender: smalyshev@sugarcrm.com X-Host-Fingerprint: 108.166.43.115 smtp115.ord1c.emailsrvr.com Linux 2.6 Received: from [108.166.43.115] ([108.166.43.115:40688] helo=smtp115.ord1c.emailsrvr.com) by pb1.pair.com (ecelerity 2.1.1.9-wez r(12769M)) with ESMTP id AB/B2-07154-71EE6835 for ; Thu, 29 May 2014 04:21:43 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp7.relay.ord1c.emailsrvr.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id DCEC01B8605; Thu, 29 May 2014 04:21:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: OK Received: by smtp7.relay.ord1c.emailsrvr.com (Authenticated sender: smalyshev-AT-sugarcrm.com) with ESMTPSA id 5CD241B862A; Thu, 29 May 2014 04:21:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <5386EE12.6070102@sugarcrm.com> Date: Thu, 29 May 2014 01:21:38 -0700 Organization: SugarCRM User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Joe Watkins CC: PHP Internals , php-webmaster References: <5777562771914574713@unknownmsgid> <1401303702.2998.111.camel@guybrush> <4f7609c82c063f3bb73aed990a7debf7@mail.gmail.com> <452088db796932d97cc99159ca520bc0@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PHP-WEBMASTER] Re: [PHP-DEV] about the latest frontpage entry From: smalyshev@sugarcrm.com (Stas Malyshev) Hi Joe! I think however anyone sees the announcement you have authored, it is a new thing that was never done before on php.net, and we all agree on that. And it came as surprise to many participants of the project. I think in the PHP project we see php.net as something representing all of us, and it was a big surprise to find there something very new that most of us never heard about. You are completely correct that never doing something before does not mean we should not be doing it. However, doing it by surprise is not always the best way. Not everybody likes surprises, especially surprises of a kind that may be taken as representing the community without actually asking most of the people in the community. I understand that it was done with best intentions, but how things are done is no less important. And I think in this case how it was done is unfortunate, and it caught many people by surprise, and that caused a negative reaction. I personally think the idea to have a developer blog is excellent, I still remember fondly the weekly summaries of the early days, and I think if somebody would take on himself (or herself) a great task of making sense of what happens on the list and present it in exportable form, I can only applaud such person. And if it were done as a separate blog, I think nobody would have anything but the best wishes. I personally appreciate the idea and what would be the best way to start the dev blog if not the article about phpng? However, php.net frontpage is kind of special place for the project, and starting the previously unknown project right there without any announcement - that was not the best idea. > try again, the idea that we must gather a consensus on facts before > communicating them is dysfunctional, and it was completely pointless to > remove indexed content from the front page other than to flex your "I'm > going to get my own way" muscles; it was already being read, all you really > done there is piss me off, and make everyone look foolish, but especially > me. I don't think it was anybody's intent to make anybody look foolish, and I do not think that actually happened. People, even with the best intentions, sometimes make mistakes. That doesn't make them fools, unless we say literally everybody is a fool. These mistakes have to be fixed and we have to think how we can do better next time, but it's not the reason to hurl accusations around and give up on cooperating. PHP is pretty egalitarian project in its makeup - a lot of people have commit rights to various parts and can add or remove content. That is the reason why, I think, before doing things that have chance of being controversial it is a very good idea to ask people about it, and if you think that makes the project dysfunctional then I guess we must disagree on that, because I think this is exactly the thing that makes the project functional - maintaining the good will and concern about others and not everybody just doing their own thing with zero regard to anybody else. > Those people I respect understand what I was doing and why, and are still > supportive of the idea to have a developer blog it's just a shame that we > seem to have a community that is incompatible, completely incompatible. I'm not sure what you mean by the last phrase, but I think, as I already told, that having such a blog would be a great idea. It just has to be done differently, not by putting it on php.net by surprise. I can not speak for everybody, but I think and hope that if you'd like to try again and do it in a different fashion, you'd get a much wider support and appreciation. -- Stanislav Malyshev, Software Architect SugarCRM: http://www.sugarcrm.com/ (408)454-6900 ext. 227