Newsgroups: php.internals
Path: news.php.net
Xref: news.php.net php.internals:74306
Mailing-List: contact internals-help@lists.php.net; run by ezmlm
Received-SPF: pass (pb1.pair.com: domain gmail.com designates 209.85.192.43 as permitted sender)
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <b861a1d828714446ae552c677d64203e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFMT4Np1Xuir4DoGgBLB=vmzHV64q=_=uJxv9AwY+sCYb2x94A@mail.gmail.com>
	<46e6ebb1de57c25be1bb5eb3bdfab1b5@mail.gmail.com>
	<57E53747-4985-4273-9911-D09B4616A104@ajf.me>
	<b861a1d828714446ae552c677d64203e@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 17 May 2014 22:36:41 +0200
Message-ID: <CAEZPtU7nSG+QL+XHxWRpSOGuJFmZ=WyR886bdpc78Df3i7b8ng@mail.gmail.com>
To: Zeev Suraski <zeev@zend.com>
Cc: Andrea Faulds <ajf@ajf.me>, Levi Morrison <levim@php.net>, internals <internals@lists.php.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Building a better PHP together.
From: pierre.php@gmail.com (Pierre Joye)

On Sat, May 17, 2014 at 10:28 PM, Zeev Suraski <zeev@zend.com> wrote:

> If it tries to create a legitimate connection and form an opinion (in this
> case, the fact that almost all engine maintainers oppose a patch that's
> about to be forced on them) - there's absolutely nothing wrong with it.

There is a lot wrong about that.

Numerous critical features have been vetoed, rejected or blocked
(before or after RFCs) because Zend so called maintainers considered
them useless. Let take an example, annotation, interestingly enough
every major frameworks out there use some userland implementation
which implements exactly what the RFC proposed.

Being crazy about performance is a good thing, being disconnected from
user needs is another, as well as heavily opposed to additions or
improvements without even taking care about anything but performance
(even when proven wrong in the recent case) is counter productive, at
best.

Anyway, my point is that 99% of the political issues we are facing is
because of the lack of communication and hidden/private development.
It is always a bad thing. It was bad last year for opcache, it is bad
now for phpng, even if the outcome is a very good thing in the long
run. The result is a good thing, the way it is achieved hurts PHP in
many ways. This is something you should work on, or think about it, as
one the company leaders.

To make my point clear, I have absolutely no personal issue against
you or Zend. But we have to understand that Zend is not alone, since
long, to take care about PHP's future. We should find better ways to
cooperate, early, often, efficiently instead of letting such things
happen again.

Cheers,
--
Pierre

@pierrejoye | http://www.libgd.org