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Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2014 13:22:48 +0300
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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] About PHP6 ...
From: arvids.godjuks@gmail.com (Arvids Godjuks)

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2014-04-03 12:35 GMT+03:00 Pierre Joye <pierre.php@gmail.com>:

> Hi Eli,
>
> On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 2:48 PM, Eli <eli@eliw.com> wrote:
> > Hello everyone.  I've been hitting a lot of conferences recently, and
> > found myself having the same discussion with multiple members of the
> > community.  And many of them have 'heavily encouraged me' to bring this
> > discussion up here.  And Julien's recent PHP6 email, reminded me that I
> > hadn't done so.
>
> It is amazing to see that the most important thing in php-next is the
> version number.
>
> > The short form is:
> >
> > We should not name the next version of PHP: PHP6, for 2 reasons:
> >     1. It will cause confusion in those least able to adapt
> >     2. It costs us nothing, hurts us in no way, to name it something else
>
> It hurts us. We were pathetic in our previous attempt for php 6, which
> by the way was never released nor existed. We will be clowns by
> skipping a version for some totally random reasons.
>
> Let put things in perspective:
> - PHP 6-dev (the -dev part is important here) was killed 5 years ago
> (or maybe more, did not check the exact time)
> - book about it have been released, how it is remotely related to us
> is a mistery but let consider them as valid...
>   . Current idea is to get 6 out in ~ two years. Making these books
> like 7-8 years old by the time php 6 will be released
>   . The communication about the development of php 6 will outcome any
> legacy results in google/bing and other
>   . The couple of books still on sale are likely to be removed (if not
> already, as I never saw one except ebook, and really, anyone buying 5
> years old book in tech ...)
>
> So in short, I really do not care about this version number. However I
> do care about the success of PHP, how we are seen from the outside (in
> case you do not realize it, we are bad, whether it is true or not is
> irrelevant). I think we should go with the logical and mathematical
> step, 5+1=6. The arguments about possible confusions refer to the few
> who ever bought these books or read some 5 years old blog posts. Know
> what? They will most likely focus on what we will communicate about
> this next major version now and here, they care about what will
> actually be done rather than some pointless marketing related moves.
> The same kind of moves were often rejected or disregarded because
> "nothing to do with php.net". The same argument applies.
>
> On the other hand, I find disturbing than almost everyone
> participating in this thread did not post a single reply, feedback, a
> single idea or proposal about what we should do for the next major
> release. Priorities anyone?
>
> As a reminder, this is what we have so far,
> https://wiki.php.net/ideas/php6
>
> I won't reply or argue in this thread or any other related to the
> version number, this is totally irrelevant to me and only confirms the
> total lack of understanding of our users needs right now. I apologize
> for that or if I offend anyone here, but this mail targets us all, me
> included. Time to focus on what matters and do not spend precious time
> on such ridiculous discussions.
>
> Cheers,
> --
> Pierre
>
> @pierrejoye | http://www.libgd.org
>
> --
> PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List
> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
>
>
/signed
+1
Agreed
Whatever other form of agreement there is.

This is getting ridiculous. You know, ultimately php.net is all about PHP
and it's development and not about stupid hosters, ignorant users and bad
bussuinesses that still are on PHP 5.1 or even PHP 4.4.
This "caring too much" caused quite a lot of grief in past years. Look at
the Wordpress and mysql_* bul*it that still prevents from removing legacy
deprecated stuff, that is in that state for years now. Still, it drags it's
feet and meddles with the PHP development.
Ultimately, I do not understand that over the top protective behaviour
about some mythical users that do not read internet, learn PHP from books
(hey, I have a whole lot of opinion on this one, I actually spent 2 full
years teaching WEB development to people - PHP, JS, some frameworks and
basic *nix - in private school) and do get into programming in PHP by some
weird ways. You know what? NOTHING WILL HELP THOSE PEOPLE! Whatever you
name next PHP, whatever PR you do - it does not matter to those people -
they will still code in procedural style, not doing any kind of app design
and probably tons of notices, errors and all those other mistakes that will
get a decent developer into hell.
Been there, done that, worked with that kind of people - they do not learn,
they are stuck in their own world and only thing that pushes them to raise
their head out into the world is when something breaks and they can't fix
it - and even then, they look for the most easy, nasty and shitty solution,
use it and never bother again.

So, everyone, just drop ip. Versioning conventions are universal, after
version 5 comes version 6. And that's it.

P.S. About the MariaDB 5 -> MariaDB 10 - their situation is unique and they
decided that they need the distinction, because MariaDB is not backwards
compatible in some cases with MySQL 5.6 anymore if you use some specific
functionality. Also, the difference feature wise became too big and they
just had to make the distinction (I talked with Monty personally on this at
a conference I was organizing). Yes, it's a precedent, but it also has a
set of very unique and difficult circumstances that warranted such a move.
In case of PHP it does not comes close.

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