Newsgroups: php.internals Path: news.php.net Xref: news.php.net php.internals:72527 Return-Path: Mailing-List: contact internals-help@lists.php.net; run by ezmlm Delivered-To: mailing list internals@lists.php.net Received: (qmail 70680 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2014 21:30:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO lists.php.net) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 12 Feb 2014 21:30:43 -0000 Authentication-Results: pb1.pair.com smtp.mail=rowan.collins@gmail.com; spf=pass; sender-id=pass Authentication-Results: pb1.pair.com header.from=rowan.collins@gmail.com; sender-id=pass Received-SPF: pass (pb1.pair.com: domain gmail.com designates 74.125.82.180 as permitted sender) X-PHP-List-Original-Sender: rowan.collins@gmail.com X-Host-Fingerprint: 74.125.82.180 mail-we0-f180.google.com Received: from [74.125.82.180] ([74.125.82.180:60297] helo=mail-we0-f180.google.com) by pb1.pair.com (ecelerity 2.1.1.9-wez r(12769M)) with ESMTP id 60/29-19387-308EBF25 for ; Wed, 12 Feb 2014 16:30:43 -0500 Received: by mail-we0-f180.google.com with SMTP id u57so6537530wes.39 for ; Wed, 12 Feb 2014 13:30:40 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=z4WUMJpPaNdMNhWKSyAxPrB9G+ltkaM6836FjHIEFz4=; b=PL0fOzUIc4QLwD8pLre2qIuFT3SsOLKMY3KxoZ05PCFUX6Id+WVsU0o7q+Hm/on1sf NGoKwdRBlUzMwwrQzx3eUSE3jAug/caEzQBeJuHiA+EHnZRAilmkJcvHc8jTxU9klHHB LZUlF2AnMhgSC7S9FwWuevNmq6ZCsmEdD4qKaY7TyTk5bMP5Xx/o/CmI8UQZhXUnz+u5 j6xWktUAtOX7rPdu26/eY9azvwFdayr0U2JOp68f+zVzGS57Nep9C7jY3ZqhqzwAycGz R2y+zr+VC90cQNbF0K4dNautR58hDQzbD5oz5bGanP4pYbr2w4DQ882itCS011TGn7ui C1nw== X-Received: by 10.180.91.164 with SMTP id cf4mr3843657wib.37.1392240640389; Wed, 12 Feb 2014 13:30:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.0.152] ([62.189.198.114]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id ux5sm55331920wjc.6.2014.02.12.13.30.38 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 12 Feb 2014 13:30:39 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <52FBE7FD.3050003@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2014 21:30:37 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: internals@lists.php.net References: <52F00437.7010903@googlemail.com> <52FA71FE.8060808@googlemail.com> <1392151967.3990.11.camel@guybrush> <52FA90B3.5040205@googlemail.com> <1392153156.3990.13.camel@guybrush> <52FA99C4.5080006@googlemail.com> <1392155891.3990.15.camel@guybrush> <52FA9FD3.6000008@googlemail.com> <52FBDC4D.9020302@googlemail.com> In-Reply-To: <52FBDC4D.9020302@googlemail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] [VOTE] __debugInfo() From: rowan.collins@gmail.com (Rowan Collins) Crypto Compress wrote (on 12/02/2014): > > so there maybe output not present in the object at all. Great source > of confusion. What if the object makes use of __get and __set, but in a systematic way? Is it more "true" to represent it as having those virtual properties, or not having them? It clearly depends on the use case, but it is certainly not only about *hiding* information, it can be about *exposing* information useful to the user of the object. It still feels to me that someone debugging the implementation of the object, rather than its interaction with the system, would have plenty of opportunity to by-pass / remove the hook anyway. Regards, -- Rowan Collins [IMSoP]