Newsgroups: php.internals Path: news.php.net Xref: news.php.net php.internals:72000 Return-Path: Mailing-List: contact internals-help@lists.php.net; run by ezmlm Delivered-To: mailing list internals@lists.php.net Received: (qmail 94395 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2014 16:29:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO lists.php.net) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 2 Feb 2014 16:29:58 -0000 X-Host-Fingerprint: 92.75.15.92 dslb-092-075-015-092.pools.arcor-ip.net Received: from [92.75.15.92] ([92.75.15.92:13981] helo=localhost.localdomain) by pb1.pair.com (ecelerity 2.1.1.9-wez r(12769M)) with ESMTP id A7/9D-30967-5827EE25 for ; Sun, 02 Feb 2014 11:29:57 -0500 Message-ID: To: internals@lists.php.net Date: Sun, 02 Feb 2014 17:29:51 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.2.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <98.E0.35265.E17FBE25@pb1.pair.com> <52ED66CC.8070304@ajf.me> <52ED9D74.8080807@ajf.me> <69.14.30967.1710EE25@pb1.pair.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Posted-By: 92.75.15.92 Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] [VOTE] Automatic Property Initialization From: gooh@php.net (Gordon Oheim) On 02.02.2014 16:07, Sara Golemon wrote: > On Sun, Feb 2, 2014 at 12:27 AM, Gordon Oheim wrote: >> Not sure where I said anything about blocking, but for the record: I don't >> question your motivations or intentions. Not at all. Sorry, if it came >> across that way. I appreciate all the hard work you put into HHVM and PHP. I >> agree about consistent implementations, but I also think the main driver >> here should be the community and not FB. Otherwise FB will be able to >> dictate PHP's future once HHVM has reached critical mass. Has nothing to do >> with you personally (or anyone else on your team). It's just a concern I >> have and judging by some other responses, I am not alone with that concern. >> > Right there is what I'm talking about. > > You're making assertions about PHP being a community driven project > against a backdrop of evil mr corporation being antithetical to that > goal. I am a member of this community as well, and when you call my > commitment into question just two sentences after apologizing for > "coming across that way", then it's not an apology and I return the > favor by calling your intentions into question. > > Let me be clear: HHVM will never be able to dictate PHP's future. PHP > is more than its engine. PHP is the people who drive it forward, both > here on this list and around the community building tools and > frameworks and everything else. If it does hit a critical mass, then > you know what will happen? We'll take what we want from it (because > users are asking for it), and we'll leave what we don't. That's not > HHVM bullying us into doing something, that's PHP growing in response > to community demand. > > I know we're not always going to agree on how a feature should be > implemented (or even that it should). The RFC process exists so that > we can collectively decide what's best for the language. But you can > bet your ass I'll get pissed when it comes down to: "Let's go for a > different syntax... just because", or worse "because fuck hhvm". > > I'm not saying that's entirely happening here, at least one good > argument for the proposed syntax has been put forth, but it's happened > on a number of rfcs recently and the tone is certainly coming across > from some posts on this one. I don't appreciate this trend of > sabotaging PHP, then blaming me for "trying to block features" when I > ask for a discussion on consistency. Because that is personal, even > if you claim it isn't. > > -Sara > Just that I never accused you of any of these things. I usually don't even comment on other RFCs. I apologize again if it's coming across any different (although it annoys me that I have to say that for the third time now). So all I can ask from you is to take it as I tell you now: it's *not* personal. It's not my intention to question your commitment or blaming you of sabotaging PHP or whatever you think I wrote there. Because I didn't. I have no interest in drama. It doesn't even have anything to do with what is or isn't in HHVM, really. I told you what I am concerned about and why I prefer my proposal over Ctor Promotion. Believe it or not, but there is no hidden agenda or politics. I don't have time for that. -Gordon