Newsgroups: php.internals Path: news.php.net Xref: news.php.net php.internals:71693 Return-Path: Mailing-List: contact internals-help@lists.php.net; run by ezmlm Delivered-To: mailing list internals@lists.php.net Received: (qmail 37705 invoked from network); 28 Jan 2014 18:53:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO lists.php.net) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 28 Jan 2014 18:53:29 -0000 Authentication-Results: pb1.pair.com smtp.mail=christopher.jones@oracle.com; spf=pass; sender-id=pass Authentication-Results: pb1.pair.com header.from=christopher.jones@oracle.com; sender-id=pass Received-SPF: pass (pb1.pair.com: domain oracle.com designates 141.146.126.69 as permitted sender) X-PHP-List-Original-Sender: christopher.jones@oracle.com X-Host-Fingerprint: 141.146.126.69 aserp1040.oracle.com Received: from [141.146.126.69] ([141.146.126.69:45757] helo=aserp1040.oracle.com) by pb1.pair.com (ecelerity 2.1.1.9-wez r(12769M)) with ESMTP id 13/37-01140-7ACF7E25 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2014 13:53:28 -0500 Received: from ucsinet21.oracle.com (ucsinet21.oracle.com [156.151.31.93]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id s0SIrNvq019825 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2014 18:53:24 GMT Received: from userz7021.oracle.com (userz7021.oracle.com [156.151.31.85]) by ucsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id s0SIrNPV005956 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2014 18:53:23 GMT Received: from abhmp0015.oracle.com (abhmp0015.oracle.com [141.146.116.21]) by userz7021.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id s0SIrNjl005941 for ; Tue, 28 Jan 2014 18:53:23 GMT Received: from [130.35.70.190] (/130.35.70.190) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Tue, 28 Jan 2014 10:53:22 -0800 Message-ID: <52E7FCA2.70009@oracle.com> Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2014 10:53:22 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.1.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: internals@lists.php.net References: <52E7D67D.1030308@ajf.me> <52E7F55F.7090801@ajf.me> In-Reply-To: <52E7F55F.7090801@ajf.me> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Source-IP: ucsinet21.oracle.com [156.151.31.93] Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] some thoughts about php 6 From: christopher.jones@oracle.com (Christopher Jones) On 01/28/2014 10:22 AM, Andrea Faulds wrote: > > > On 28/01/14 16:13, Pierre Joye wrote: >> Anyone not being a developer will never use it. Let alone conservative >> projects, or already released applications. There is no gain. However >> there are tools already to apply whatever CS one wishes to existing >> source code, or to check CS on commit. That's what one can uses case >> sensitive naming without us having to break everything out there. I >> think we can disagree on that and do not discuss that forever, if >> there is a RFC about it, we will vote on it and that's it :) My >> mistake was to send this mail too early, more important points coming >> :) > > I don't care about coding style. I care about sanity here, and I think case-insensitivity leads to more problems than it solves, especially, as others have pointed out, when autoloading comes into play. > > A case-fixing tool could be run once on existing codebases, break no backwards compatibility, and make those codebases work on PHP 6. > Regardless of how we might wish the language had originally been created, keeping compatibility is a very, very strong argument against some of the recent compatibility-breaking RFCs and internals discussions. Whether the pros outweigh the cons on a particular RFC is a case-by-case question. I agree with Pierre: make a strong RFC (and patch etc) and it can be voted on. The Python community has similar "discussions", e.g. see the link in: https://twitter.com/ghrd/status/427879604070526976 Chris -- christopher.jones@oracle.com http://twitter.com/ghrd Free PHP & Oracle book: http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/topics/php/underground-php-oracle-manual-098250.html