Newsgroups: php.internals Path: news.php.net Xref: news.php.net php.internals:71464 Return-Path: Mailing-List: contact internals-help@lists.php.net; run by ezmlm Delivered-To: mailing list internals@lists.php.net Received: (qmail 744 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2014 20:20:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO lists.php.net) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 23 Jan 2014 20:20:00 -0000 Authentication-Results: pb1.pair.com smtp.mail=hannes.magnusson@gmail.com; spf=pass; sender-id=pass Authentication-Results: pb1.pair.com header.from=hannes.magnusson@gmail.com; sender-id=pass Received-SPF: pass (pb1.pair.com: domain gmail.com designates 209.85.192.172 as permitted sender) X-PHP-List-Original-Sender: hannes.magnusson@gmail.com X-Host-Fingerprint: 209.85.192.172 mail-pd0-f172.google.com Received: from [209.85.192.172] ([209.85.192.172:35269] helo=mail-pd0-f172.google.com) by pb1.pair.com (ecelerity 2.1.1.9-wez r(12769M)) with ESMTP id 2E/6C-39789-E6971E25 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2014 15:19:59 -0500 Received: by mail-pd0-f172.google.com with SMTP id p10so2230335pdj.3 for ; Thu, 23 Jan 2014 12:19:56 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=9CVAvEasAiGziTm7mgMaCnbuQe52Y99xq+g+8vN7N9Y=; b=0llW2p6g8UghhBLBGh7dkPbZnZp/NT+7EKZZ6CHFtIbQILuYvISN3qzwjwKpz2DMqC aNCdooFTNwEJ6pXNi+p5vW7mo5ibyEPZUf+6pY/3duXhR3O6k2fvi2EHUBxhLt/2CjHN 1OBSj0X6MfNgHuLm66sg4Z8/XzAxrBnHadO7Qehc38Dzw+PJzpfOOakfhuceDr4mAfy0 UrcFyGwsM8WcRTD2UTh6g9ecEfflTb/m+/w+FTQlTlR54pC6gEIjfZEvAK+JRZ9TgRSJ rgxs2JOWcSkvn4WIAaRmpGpriuTODFm7DEqXye2FHtxRPwL+OXkLdVd3Dq2e4a/9rCR/ pEKA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.68.201.10 with SMTP id jw10mr10161772pbc.25.1390508396001; Thu, 23 Jan 2014 12:19:56 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.68.60.3 with HTTP; Thu, 23 Jan 2014 12:19:55 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <52E0F55F.4040802@lsces.co.uk> <2490044a0e2cba88044cf5da9b1b6647.squirrel@webmail.klapt.com> Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2014 12:19:55 -0800 Message-ID: To: Pierre Joye Cc: Lester Caine , PHP internals , Nikita Popov , Anatol Belski Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] 64 bit platform improvements for string length and integer From: hannes.magnusson@gmail.com (Hannes Magnusson) On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 11:55 AM, Pierre Joye wrote: > Hi, > > On Jan 23, 2014 8:35 PM, "Hannes Magnusson" > wrote: >> >> On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 11:16 AM, Pierre Joye >> wrote: >> > On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 7:38 PM, Hannes Magnusson >> > wrote: >> >> On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 9:52 AM, Anatol Belski wrote: >> >> >> >>>> If this patch is included in PHP 5.6 I think it is very likely that >> >>>> many >> >>>> extensions will not be updated or take a long while in updating. It's >> >>>> one >> >>>> thing to add two or three new ifdefs to support a new PHP release and >> >>>> something entirely else to change virtually all types in your code >> >>>> and >> >>>> verify that it is still safe with the new sizes. >> >>> I think it depends on how active an extension is supported and >> >>> developed. >> >>> For instance on PECL are still some extensions not even been ported to >> >>> PHP5. From the todays experience, a port to the current patch might >> >>> take >> >>> from 3 hours to 3 days, depending on complexity. Say 3 days vs 5 >> >>> months >> >>> until final, together with the porting docs and tools, most of the >> >>> really >> >>> active and being in demand extensions will be so far or users will >> >>> tear >> >>> the devs apart :) >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> If zpp/error_docref/*printf compatibility is not kept it will take a >> >> long time to update pecl extensions, and risk epic failure in the >> >> future when continuing the work on the extensions >> >> >> >> zpp (COMPAT ? "zyx" : "xyz", &foo, &bar, &baz) will in 1year turn into >> >> zpp (COMPAT ? "zyx|xz" : "xyz|z", &foo, &bar, &baz, &meh) and work >> >> just fine.. until you hit the perfect storm ^^^^^^^ look at this ^^^^^ >> >> >> >> >> >> Its easy to migrate php-src exts since they don't have to care about >> >> compatibility with multiple php versions, but needing to support 5.3, >> >> 5.4, 5.5, 5.6, 5.7, 6.0 in a pecl extension will be nightmare >> >> >> >> Also, keep in mind most developers priority is not to work on >> >> supporting unreleased versions of PHP, but to keep maintaining the ext >> >> and adding features - so even though the guesstimate 5months "until >> >> final" is true, the extensions won't be updated until 5months _after_ >> >> 5.6.0 is out. >> > >> > We have ported many extensions (all actively used and maintained) for >> > 5.5.0 before it was released. Some bugs appeared when used with 5.5 >> > and was discovered after final, but that's expected and nothing we can >> > do about it but test, test and test :) How is this related to zpp migrations? You worked on 5.5? Great! But we are not talking about 5.5 We are talking about migration approaches for 5.6 and zpp. >> Can I see 3 examples of pecl extensions you have ported, out of those >> many and actively used, that need to support multiple PHP versions? >> It would help to clearly visualize the full workload. >> >> Also, are you planning on doing this migration for all pecl >> extensions? If not, then my argument still stands. > > Check Anatol or my commits or PRs. And yes we keep contribute to many > extensions in core and pecl, and yes we keep report bugs, and yes we test > these exts too. > >> Waiiit.. You are talking about 5.5? Not 5.6 with this patch? >> Yeah, supporting 5.5 wasn't a major deal. It didn't change zpp or >> *printf() arguments. > > 5.5 was a piece of cake but for APC (same with 5.4). > > And again, zpp is one of the open questions. Maybe you should read my initial reply again. Thats exactly what we are discussing. How dangerous COMPAT ? foo : bar can be in zpp. And zillions of ifdefs are no better. bc needs to be kept as suggested by Nikita, Dmitry, Chris.. Rather then trying to press through bc break there. You then make two completely out of the blue unrelated replies.. To make what point exactly? That you worked on some extension for PHP 5.5? Awesome! I appreciate that! Please stay on point and if you have nothing to say then don't reply. It is OK to not reply to every single mail ever. -Hannes