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Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2014 21:00:29 +0100
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To: Yasuo Ohgaki <yohgaki@ohgaki.net>
Cc: Robert Parker <rparker@yamiko.org>, "internals@lists.php.net" <internals@lists.php.net>
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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] [PHP6] Function name consistency
From: florinpatan@gmail.com (Florin Patan)

>On Thu, Jan 2, 2014 at 8:42 PM, Yasuo Ohgaki <yohgaki@ohgaki.net> wrote:
> HI all,
>
> On Fri, Jan 3, 2014 at 2:49 AM, Robert Parker <rparker@yamiko.org> wrote:
>
>> I would consider myself one of those php developers. I know very little c,
>> and java. Javascript is my second language after php. Most php developers
>> have yet to move towards 5.3 and don't know how to even use namespaces or
>> what they are. They often use wordpress or drupal which are very slow to
>> adapt.
>>
>> Considering how slow and hard it is for most php developers to migrate to
>> new versions of php I do not think creating aliases or changing the names
>> would be beneficial. Different developers would use different aliases and
>> it would confuse a lot of php developers.
>>
>
> This proposal does not intend to force users to adopt new names, but ensure
> PHP popularity in the long run.
>
> Are new users willing to learn language that have full of inconsistent
> names
> even for basic/standard/default functions?
>
> My intention to have consistent function names for old function is
>
>  - to ensure PHP as attractive language to learn even 10 or 20 years later.
>
> I agree that adoption of new feature is slow. If we made function names
> consistent now, there would be codes around uses historic names 10 years
> later, but it does not matter for the purpose of this proposal.
>
> De facto Standard names such as strchr() would be acceptable names even
> 20 years from now. Other functions such as  GD functions are better to have
> consistent names.
>
> Please consider this proposal is for new users that will learn PHP from now
> or
> in the future.
>
> Regards,
>
> --
> Yasuo Ohgaki
> yohgaki@ohgaki.net


If you look at golang you'll see they have 'go fix'
http://golang.org/cmd/fix/ which helps mitigate the effects of
language changes automatically.

I suppose it wouldn't be a problem with having a tool that can
generate an AST out of a .php file  and dump it back to a newer syntax
(as long as only the function / method / classes name and parameter
order is changing).

The issue I see is that people are stuck into the: 'bbbut it's using
the underlying uber-duper library and if a dozen people know about it
then it must be a good thing' approach.

Also, having a flag in the engine, with some ini_set(blah, true) seems
like a poor decision imo. Fix the problem at the source, don't clutter
the engine because the php users are too lazy to run an automated
tool.

And yes, I do suggest that PHP should start to impose a certain
formatting, since it would be needed by this tool, but if you look
past the initial: ':(((( I want my tabs / spaces back' or whatever, in
a couple of days / weeks everyone would forget about the formatting
issues and just focus on the code.

@Yasuo, if you really want to keep PHP attractive maybe you should
look on what golang is doing because imo they served every other
languages a lesson in tooling and not only.

----
Florin Patan / @dlsniper
https://github.com/dlsniper
http://www.linkedin.com/in/florinpatan