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To: internals@lists.php.net,Lester Caine <lester@lsces.co.uk>
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Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2013 09:52:00 +0000
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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Censorship in php
From: krakjoe@php.net (Joe Watkins)

On 12/22/2013 09:48 AM, Lester Caine wrote:
> Levi Morrison wrote:
>> The webmaster list has been around for a while; it's not a new list by
>> any means...
>
> If the discussion was on the webmaster list then fine. But currently the
> website is promoting a new venue for discussion not hosted by php.net as
> far as I can tell with no linkage back to the project at all? It
> requires a separate login and it's the control and administration of
> this which I am questioning. Like composer and php-fig it seems that the
> core project is happy to let others take control of what I consider
> fundamental development decisions and then drive developments within the
> project to better match that view of forward development.
>
> I will ask once again that PHP5.6 is shelved in favour of PHP6 to allow
> those of us who were happy with the stability that PHP used to provide
> to stabilise it once again with a version that we at least stand a
> chance of catching up with.
>
> Since the general feeling here seems to be that if someone is willing to
> promote their own pet project then so be it, perhaps now is the time to
> take advantage of DVCS and start promoting a 'simple PHP' project based
> on a time before 'e_strict' ... I still have sites that need reworking
> before they can be used on more modern PHP installations safely, so the
> suggestion that I should be monitoring even more lists does not go down
> well!
>

Morning Lester,

	Nobody is going to halt the progress of _anything_ because of a single 
voice; you are a single voice. The rest of the community want for PHP to 
move forward, toward stability of course (not that I'm aware of any 
particular instability), but while gathering worth while features - 
noteworthy: it's pretty much always been like that, nothing has changed.

	I dunno what your beef is, I'm sure it cannot be about the number of 
mailing lists you have to monitor ... but it would seem that rather than 
spending time on mailing lists complaining about the way things are, you 
could get involved, you could do any of the things you are saying are 
good ideas, and in your mind at least, you'd be making progress.

	In short, spending time on mailing lists, talking about feelings, 
doesn't seem to be a very good use of anyone's time, so I'd ask that you 
shelve this conversation, and let us all get on with what we're doing 
... and by all means, get involved yourself, don't stand at the 
sidelines shouting "ref, you're doing it wrong" ...

Cheers
Joe