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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: phpdbg
From: ivan.enderlin@hoa-project.net ("Ivan Enderlin @ Hoa")

On 21/11/2013 18:19, Terry Ellison wrote:
> On 21/11/13 14:43, Michael Wallner wrote:
>> On 21 November 2013 15:38, Joe Watkins <krakjoe@php.net> wrote:
>>> On 11/21/2013 02:20 PM, Nikita Popov wrote:
>>>> I'm probably missing some context here, maybe you could explain how =

>>>> phpdbg
>>>> differs from something like xdebug? I mean, xdebug seems to be the
>>>> de-facto
>>>> debugging extension for PHP and has been for a long time, but we're =

>>>> not
>>>> bundling it. Why should we bundle phpdbg instead?
>>>          This is not an extension, it is a SAPI module. The build=20
>>> system does
>>> not support external SAPI modules, the implementation requires Zend A=
PI
>>> which is not exported (or wasn't, has since been patched).
>> That still does not answer the question, though?!
> Nikita asked *two* questions. Joe answered the first.  My reading of=20
> what he says, plus following the links to his write up on=20
> http://phpdbg.com, is because phpdbg is a SAPI -- as far as I can see=20
> esentially a debug variant of the CLI SAPI -- you can use it very much =

> the same way that you can debug perl scripts with the "perl -d" switch.=

>
> This is functionality that I for one REALLY miss with PHP.  Maybe its=20
> just me, but I've tried using xdebug without modifying the source, and =

> I find it very difficult to configure for anything other than getting=20
> smart tracebacks on errors.   Also xdebug being an extension, you have =

> to be careful about load order when debugging other extensions.  I=20
> usually give up using xdebug and add (temporary) diagnostics to the=20
> PHP source code.
>
> As to Nikita's second Q: why should we bundle phpdbg instead of=20
> xdebug?  I think that an average PHP developer would find a CLI debug=20
> interface that could be enabled through a command line switch a=20
> valuable addition to the PHP development toolset.   This utility=20
> argument was valid for the -S option and the CLI webserver mode, so=20
> why not apply this same argument here?
I agree. phpdbg is very useful and different of xdebug *by design* and=20
*features* (SAPI, break-point, code introspection, userland API =E2=80=94=
can be=20
extended, wrapped, embedded=E2=80=A6=E2=80=94). phpdbg has a CLI interfac=
e, but a=20
client/server model would be possible (and appreciated ;-)).=20
Consequently, a lot of software quality tools can emerge. This is not=20
possible with xdebug (without denigrating xdebug, this is just a=20
different tool). Having phpdbg bundled into PHP's core would be a good=20
idea from my point of view :-).

And please, with all my respect and without considering xdebug here,=20
stop using the =E2=80=9Cde-facto [standard]=E2=80=9D expression. A tool i=
s not good=20
because it is the only one to be in the place :-).

Regards.

--=20
Ivan Enderlin
Developer of Hoa
http://hoa-project.net/

PhD. student at DISC/Femto-ST (Vesontio) and INRIA (Cassis)
http://disc.univ-fcomte.fr/ and http://www.inria.fr/

Member of HTML and WebApps Working Group of W3C
http://w3.org/