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Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2013 12:04:25 -0700
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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP and Objective-C
From: mike@quasidea.com (Mike Ho)

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Kevin,

This may seem like a good idea =97 and it's been attempted several times =
in the past=85 if you do a just google for PHP and Objective-C and/or =
PHP and Cocoa, you'll see some hits for a number of past open source =
project that attempted to start going down this path, but never really =
got any traction.

However, even if those projects did come to fruition, in practice this =
actually won't help that much.

At the end of the day, when writing applications in for Mac OS X and/or =
iOS, a developer will need to learn two things:
	1. the Objective-C language and runtime
	2. the Cocoa or Cocoa Touch API

As someone who has done a lot of PHP development and who transitioned =
into iOS development several years ago (and now I am actively developing =
on both platforms), I can say from personal experience that "#2" is =
significantly more of a challenge than "#1".

Ultimately, when looking at #1, it's really just a change in syntax.  =
You're really just using a bunch of "[]" and "." instead of "$" and =
"->".  Honestly, when comparing the language of Objective-C and PHP, =
other than these syntax differences, there isn't much else that is =
different.  Even memory management is now taken care of you via the =
runtime's ARC feature.  And yes, while I may be oversimplifying things =
here a bit, once you dig into it I think you'll quickly see what I mean.

I actually gave a talk about this at php|tek last year: =
http://www.quasidea.com/talks/iOSDevelopmentPrimerForPHP.pdf

The steeper learning curve, by far, is #2, and unfortunately, you would =
still have to learn it even if you were able to wrap all the API calls =
around a PHP wrapper.

It's ultimately the reason why there is so much push back against a lot =
of these language-based wrappers around Cocoa and Cocoa touch, including =
things like Mono Touch, Flash Builder, and even to a certain extent the =
hybrid app platforms like PhoneGap or Appcelerator.  Regardless of your =
choice of language, you still need to learn the APIs.

If you want some free advice from someone who has gone down the path of =
transitioning from PHP to Objective-C, spend the time to learn =
Objective-C and the Cocoa [Touch] APIs natively.  It will be a much =
wiser investment of your time and effort than trying to build a wrapper =
library for it in PHP.

Just my 2 cents,
Mike


On Oct 23, 2013, at 11:20 AM, Kevin Ingwersen =
<ingwie2000@googlemail.com> wrote:

> Hello there.
>=20
> I have absolutely no real clue where to post this but rather into some =
sort of development mailing list.
>=20
> Recently, I started to work on some tool that will compile a lot of =
PHP scripts into a single file, and may even go further and bundle a PHP =
binary within to create a sort-of standalone PHP executable. The concept =
is quite simple, but the including stuff isn't really. But, as I was =
thinking about this idea, I came across the various ideas of trying to =
use a GUI with PHP scripts. On windows, that has already been possible. =
But not on Mac - at least I found no working solution. wxWidgets (as =
extension, wxPHP) won't compile because it relies on the Carbon =
framework - which has been discontinued since about at least three major =
releases. And the extension can't be made to work with Cocoa, as this is =
Objective-C - and not C/C++.
>=20
> And here is the keyword, Objective-C.
>=20
> I have learned, that Objective-C is, like C++, a layer ontop of C. =
Furthermore, I saw that there was am "embed" SAPI, yet I couldn't find =
any way to fully integrate PHP into a binary that had non-Zend code =
inside; there is only a book. And due to my visual impairment, I am =
unable to read said book.
>=20
> So I came up with a few questions:
>=20
> 	- How could one integrate PHP into a C/C++ programm?
> The reason I ask is because, I want to see how far I could integrate =
PHP into an Objective-C program.
>=20
> 	- When integrating, how could I expose Objective-C functions to =
PHP's "C-Scope"?
> The Zend 2 API is very poorly documented; basic things like =
reading/writing to and from objects is documented so poorly, that I had =
to read a ~100 page long slide share. But yet, I thought that the only =
way to expose stuff like Objective-C functions, or even Classes, to PHP =
would be to add a PHP-Extension-like structure, so that once the =
Objective-C programm was initialized, it would use the Zend API to =
expose things to PHP.
>=20
>=20
> My goal is to enable access to at least the GUI functions of Cocoa, =
which can be reached thru Objective-C. Using this method, I wanted to =
create a new kind of framework, and combine it with my previous project =
of pulling PHP files into one. I think it already made a clue in your =
head if you are able to understand my - sadly - weird english.
>=20
> Once I can expose Objective-C scope into PHP, I would be able to =
enable GUI's with PHP. Since PHP is very easily understood, it could be =
a good start for switchers - like me - to understand the other language =
and API. Now, we can use my code-compiler idea and build all the PHP =
script into one single, giant file - maybe even use Phar as this offers =
a great solution for that. The last step is to combine the executable =
and script, and we would get an actual and valid Mac OS X application - =
we do not need the compiling part, but it'd be cool ;).
>=20
>=20
> I hope anybody can help me, poke me into the right direction to =
anything. This is just one idea I have, and something I hope to realize. =
I taught myself a good amount of c++ by trying to create a wrapper of a =
C++ class for a PHP extension. So I would try the trick again to learn =
more about objective-C.
>=20
> Kind regards,
> Kevin Ingwersen
>=20
> PS: I am from germany, my english may not be very understandable - so =
please ask if you didn't understand something! :)
> --
> PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List
> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
>=20


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