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Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2013 00:10:22 -0400
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To: "internals@lists.php.net" <internals@lists.php.net>
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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Wake up
From: seva.lapsha@gmail.com (Seva Lapsha)

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PHP is a collective mind. Any dictatorship would mean a degradation for it.
If you don't like how it's managed, there is an easy path:

1. Earn authority.
2. Propose a change.
3. Implement it.
4. Maintain it.

Start with 1.



On Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 6:44 AM, Florin Patan <florinpatan@gmail.com> wrote:

> Good day internals,
>
>
>
> This morning I read something that's not fun:
> https://twitter.com/ircmaxell/status/376027280562073600
>
> Yet another good contributor leaves this community (not the whole PHP
> community) because of the way things are done here.
>
> It's true that this is an open source project and everyone can join
> and leave whenever he/she wants but like Anthony says, this project
> needs more leadership, more vision and definitely a better management.
> Someone said that there's no one coming forward or trying to change
> things, I may not be the right person to do this but at least maybe
> I'll wake up someone who can take action and change things.
>
> Here's some facts:
> - a couple of months ago named parameters was a taboo subject, I know
> because I've asked for it and everyone went silent, now we have a RFC
> discussing it
> - we had a RFC for autoloading functions but people just can't
> understand how to provide feedback and at the end of the day it
> resulted in a contributor leaving because of the murkiness here
> - we have a bunch of RFCs waiting for feedback and being trolled to
> infinity by people with their own agendas
> - having a RFC to make a language change requires to have a patch
> which if you don't know C and internals you got no chance of doing.
> And if you do know C, PHP internals will drain the soul out of you
> before doing something
> - there's no clear objective for what PHP has / will have / will not
> have / will not ever have.
> - there were patches proposed by Facebook, and others, that are / were
> rejected, delayed or ignored. Who heard of Facebook anyway, they have
> just one website with a billion users probably running on a a couple
> of Galaxy Note 3 and 2-3 iPhone 6 as a load balancers, my cat can do
> better I tell you.
>
> Where's Rasmus, the so called benevolent dictator, to actually dictate
> and handle the internals? Yes Rasmus, you're making money out of PHP
> yet I haven't seen a comment from you in the past months. Wikipedia
> doesn't list you as hibernating.
>
> Where Zend | The PHP Company? It's their name, no? They are making
> money out of PHP brand, certifications and training? They've added the
> opcode cache and that was the single biggest thing they've did in 7
> years? Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
>
> Then there's that 'little' community of framework developers called
> FIG which tried to do some standardization in the way things are done
> in userland but guess what. It took 2 years or so for anyone here to
> actually think we might really want to add PSR-0 to core. And people
> here still have issues with that because it's not in the PHP 'open
> spirit' (of the internals). Granted, FIG could do much better but hey,
> they follow the example set here by you.
>
> For me this PHP 'open spirit' is just a way of saying: I don't want to
> have my head full of real issues so I'll just ignore them and let
> others handle them.
>
> Look at other languages. Take GO for example, which is done by the
> other big noobs on the market called Google.
>
> If you want, you can actually start and contribute to the language in
> less that a week from learning the language! There's documentation
> inside their sources (shocking! I know). There are pages talking about
> their language decisions and why they do(n't) support certain things.
> PHP has some rather prehistoric documentation about its internals and
> that's it. Ok, PHP is written in C not PHP that's why it's harder to
> contribute to it but it's not like there's documentation for internals
> anyway. Or maybe, just maybe, they actually have some good language
> design, who knows?
>
> And I know what you'll say:
> - yet another one making some smoke, lets ignore him;
> - who cares about you complaining,  PHP is still the most spread
> language for servers
> - PHP releases very often with new things for developers that they
> want / use / need.
>
> But you really expect this to continue forever? If so you are plain
> ignorant and you shouldn't be part of this.
>
> So, either you care about PHP and wake up or leave and let others take
> over.
>
> Or better yet, ask someone like Facebook to take over and that's it.
> Maybe they'll be interested in doing that since they had to rewrite
> HHVM two times to get more performance out of PHP.
> If you don't like Facebook, let Microsoft take over if they are
> interested. They have contributors here, they have some programming
> languages under their belt.
>
> Or just dismiss the project completely and let the community take over.
>
> But please, stop with these:
> - nah, today is not a good day for this patch/ thread
> - we have a leader already
> - we have people contributing
> - look ma' charts are growing, we are still ahead of others
> - I'll just be against everything today as I didn't had enough sugar
> in my coffee
> attitudes as it's really not productive for developers and companies
> that are still using PHP.
>
>
>
> ----
> Florin Patan
> https://github.com/dlsniper
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/florinpatan
>
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