Newsgroups: php.internals
Path: news.php.net
Xref: news.php.net php.internals:69007
Mailing-List: contact internals-help@lists.php.net; run by ezmlm
Received-SPF: pass (pb1.pair.com: domain gmail.com designates 209.85.223.179 as permitted sender)
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <CAL0xaBFLV--dMfsOmOW2yxLdZFswG0DM+dVkqFoWoU4o4QQ7Gg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAA9esyT9vwOOk5AuyWNR7hDOJc=DHjZxPTpo370M_+tByoEmgA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAL0xaBFxxJkeoSbzVY5iVc9FixjeoLjS-UF7GUZxq8BXHenQyg@mail.gmail.com>
	<1378903588.3917.54.camel@guybrush>
	<CAL0xaBFLV--dMfsOmOW2yxLdZFswG0DM+dVkqFoWoU4o4QQ7Gg@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2013 14:52:51 +0100
Message-ID: <CAPMc8ua1DLrVm2NACKWanEO_nnEUzAqa0hwtf=gWpAGXRSv1fQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: Arvids Godjuks <arvids.godjuks@gmail.com>
Cc: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Johannes_Schl=FCter?= <johannes@schlueters.de>, 
	"internals@lists.php.net" <internals@lists.php.net>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e01294a20fa681404e61bef63
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Wake up
From: terence.copestake@gmail.com (Terence Copestake)

--089e01294a20fa681404e61bef63
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

In less than 10 posts, this thread descended into people bashing each
other. Perhaps that's telling of something.

I won't comment on the point about forums or anything else, but a concern
brought up repeatedly both here and in various blogs is the lack of
direction or vision. There's a conflict between people who want to keep PHP
simple and accessible and people who want to make PHP into a professional
programming tool/environment, complete with all bells and whistles. With
everyone wanting something different and having different ideas on who the
target users are, what PHP's responsibilities and concerns should be, etc.,
it's going to be the classic struggle of trying to be everything for
everybody all at once.

Perhaps that issue really does need to be tackled head-on - and if a
consensus can't be reached, maybe PHP should branch off, having one version
(not necessarily a different codebase) for hobbyists, small sites and
beginners, alongside a professional branch for production environments and
developers who are willing and able to take off the training wheels and
make use of more advanced features, stop relying on the engine to let them
get away with bad habits, etc.

The other classic problem is old-timers who get stuck in their ways and
instantly reject the very notion of change because it will take them out of
their comfort zone - and discourage newcomers who might oust them from
their position of power. Perhaps there's a Machiavellian amongst us who can
help out with that one.

--089e01294a20fa681404e61bef63--