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Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 23:34:17 +0200
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To: Rasmus Lerdorf <rasmus@lerdorf.com>
Cc: Anthony Ferrara <ircmaxell@gmail.com>, Zeev Suraski <zeev@zend.com>, 
	Nikita Popov <nikita.ppv@gmail.com>, 
	PHP Developers Mailing List <internals@lists.php.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] [VOTE] Integrating Zend Optimizer+ into the PHP distribution
From: florinpatan@gmail.com (Florin Razvan Patan)

> I've read all the e-mails so far and there are valid points from both
> parts but it seems there's a critical thing missing.
>
> What do PHP users want?
>
> I mean, what do sysadmins, programmers and managers want from PHP 5.5?
>
> Here's my personal opinion:
>
> I work in an enterprise so... I want stability (includes bug fixes)
> and speed. In this order. Language features are on the third spot, at
> least this is the case for PHP 5.5.
>
> We'll get generators and a function for passwords and something I
> really don't care about :) Why? Because I won't have a chance to use
> them soon and by the time I'll use them PHP will get to version 5.8
> most likely. So for me the fact that PHP 5.5 will be delayed a couple
> of months is irrelevant.
>
> We upgrade either to use better tools/frameworks or to benefit from
> security patches when versions are no longer maintained so unless
> something big appears earlier there's no point to upgrade.
>
> Don't get me wrong, those features are great, as much as those in PHP
> 5.4, yet history tells us that people still didn't made that step to
> upgrade to 5.4 yet.
>
> So if those features are not that 'something big' then what is it?
>
> A huge, out of the box, speed bump for production machines.
>
> Could this be done with APC? Most likely, that is if a stable APC were
> to be released same time as PHP 5.5. I really don't want to offend
> anyone but see what happened with 5.4 and APC.
>
> What I'm trying to say is: if O+ can be added to PHP 5.5 and made
> stable, and I do mean production ready which from my understanding is
> almost there, then why shouldn't it be done?
>
> But I'm just a single user. Maybe I'm right, maybe I'm wrong. But so
> are the other people who replied here so far, they are all only
> individuals.
>
> This is a perfect opportunity for testing out the whole: 'ask your
> users' thing that me and several other people were talking about.
>
> How expensive would it be, both in time and actual costs, to actually
> make this happen? Either setup a poll on php.net or on a third party
> service for one-two weeks and ask the users these simple questions
> (obviously they could be better, POC ahead):
>
> What do you expect from PHP 5.5? (multiple choice)
> - better security
> - better stability
> - better speed
> - more language features
> - other <type here>
> - all of the above
>
> Do you know what an opcode cache is?
> - yes
> - no
>
> Would you be ok if PHP 5.5 will not ship in April 2013 but in August
> 2013 because we want to integrate an opcode cache, a functionality,
> which once used could increase the speed of your applications by up to
> 50% or more*?
> - yes
> - no
>
> * NOTE: the speed increase is not guaranteed to be the same for all
> applications nor it is guaranteed.
>
> Would the fact that PHP 5.5 doesn't ship as originally planed, if the
> mentioned integration happens, affect your view about PHP?
> - yes
> - no
>
> What position do you have in your company?
> - developer
> - sysadmin
> - devops
> - manager
> - other: <type here>
>
> Are you in a position to influence the upgrade from your current PHP
> version to PHP 5.5?
> - yes
> - no
>
>
> Afaik every major framework has someone here, on the ML, then we have
> Zend and we have some other libraries and so on here as well. Imagine
> if all those people would link from their websites to the said poll. I
> think it would be a small effort from them but the responses could at
> least point out to what users actually want and help you in sorting
> this out.
>
> If I offended anyone, which I'm almost sure I did, it was not my
> intention, please forgive me.
>
> Thank you all for your hard work on PHP.
>

And I've forgot the most important question:

Would you skip PHP 5.4 migration if the opcode caching were to be
included by default in PHP 5.5?
- yes
- no


Best regards
----
Florin Patan
https://github.com/dlsniper