Newsgroups: php.internals Path: news.php.net Xref: news.php.net php.internals:66117 Return-Path: Mailing-List: contact internals-help@lists.php.net; run by ezmlm Delivered-To: mailing list internals@lists.php.net Received: (qmail 33680 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2013 15:30:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO lists.php.net) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 21 Feb 2013 15:30:23 -0000 Authentication-Results: pb1.pair.com smtp.mail=rasmus@lerdorf.com; spf=permerror; sender-id=unknown Authentication-Results: pb1.pair.com header.from=rasmus@lerdorf.com; sender-id=unknown Received-SPF: error (pb1.pair.com: domain lerdorf.com from 209.85.216.175 cause and error) X-PHP-List-Original-Sender: rasmus@lerdorf.com X-Host-Fingerprint: 209.85.216.175 mail-qc0-f175.google.com Received: from [209.85.216.175] ([209.85.216.175:56182] helo=mail-qc0-f175.google.com) by pb1.pair.com (ecelerity 2.1.1.9-wez r(12769M)) with ESMTP id 3F/25-05272-E8D36215 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 10:30:22 -0500 Received: by mail-qc0-f175.google.com with SMTP id j3so3593243qcs.20 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 07:30:20 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc :subject:references:in-reply-to:x-enigmail-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:x-gm-message-state; bh=bcZV7jP7813EPVUOo/md4hILVL6+9iTgLOiQJ88/QTE=; b=hXIBpevpGoxm74wvbw7K/Sw+Jxy2Vk4kEE8DKUUnHwnquBJiVBlRQR7UM6JBn3quoT 1MTc08+eLQp41Rq5NnFcXMsP4Gqfdx2RZRBQe5B2Pul6OvgkT9HXNWQhqIHlxg+vdH1Q QNGbF2pCCNjg8jhBlKC/1qaZ1OEa1/MhBx/e4I+NTRSUAPBAHeea9M6OhL03xnqtITup OwOjo5PjDBF7ETQaUN+1Nus3O33rH8HUdHmAB7etPUQijW9HzrJuPLDh2KpDe7sH8JCs hqVF0sBmwwgkQ+/YTcnigZ+GZkYCFHmB/1RnTg/9cV6WifDHgB6g5lTKbvZ9DXeGW4yg 6kSw== X-Received: by 10.224.188.82 with SMTP id cz18mr11422564qab.71.1361460619954; Thu, 21 Feb 2013 07:30:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.200.148] (c-50-131-44-225.hsd1.ca.comcast.net. [50.131.44.225]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id z9sm3598495qae.5.2013.02.21.07.30.18 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 21 Feb 2013 07:30:19 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <51263D89.5040308@lerdorf.com> Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2013 07:30:17 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130106 Thunderbird/17.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Pierre Joye CC: Zeev Suraski , Lars Strojny , Derick Rethans , PHP Developers Mailing List References: <678597E6-E3A8-42E0-8DFC-F8382C9DFB41@strojny.net> <8d4e991084a1313844910ec0168eacdf@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: X-Enigmail-Version: 1.4.6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQm/vGevYATlXQRiB6j1XkZkf5poysPe3sLicjgK2cTKV6pFFdIZgbtf7zL3n5cjK9nalnsj Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Give the Language a Rest motion (fwd) From: rasmus@lerdorf.com (Rasmus Lerdorf) In the slice of the "community" where I spend most of my time, medium-to-large companies using PHP with their own custom code on hundreds to thousands or even 10's of thousands of servers, neither annotations nor getter/setter are anywhere on their wishlist radar. What they most desire is performance, robustness and security. They would love to see a PHP release that had no syntax changes, no BC changes, but was twice as fast and crashed half as much. I realize this is just one (small?) slice of the community but so is the part of the community wanting annotations. This is the balancing act we have to perform. It is not stubbornness, nor living in the past, it is recognizing that each and every major feature addition has a destabilizing effect on the codebase and if the addition only serves a small slice of the userbase we have to think long and hard about the merits of it. Personally I would love to see more RFCs focusing on performance and less on syntax changes. Of course, a syntax change RFC, and even the initial (often shaky) implementation of a syntax-related change is much much easier to whip up than the deep analysis, profiling and creativity required to find and come up with ways to make a complex piece of code faster or use less memory. -Rasmus