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Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 12:32:46 -0800
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To: Florin Razvan Patan <florinpatan@gmail.com>
Cc: Paul Reinheimer <preinheimer@gmail.com>, 
	"internals@lists.php.net" <internals@lists.php.net>
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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP User Survey
From: kris.craig@gmail.com (Kris Craig)

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On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 12:27 PM, Florin Razvan Patan <florinpatan@gmail.com
> wrote:

> Hi Paul,
>
> On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 10:00 PM, Paul Reinheimer <preinheimer@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Hi All,
> >
> > My apologies for the intrusion, I'll keep this brief.
> >
> > In many discussions over the past few months there has been talk about
> what
> > the community at large needs. Pierre said just earlier today:
> >
> > "I would also say it us time for us to get back in sync with the
> > communities needs. I am not talking about the last days RFCs but in
> > general."
> >
> > The other point that comes up is the difficulty in reaching a large
> portion
> > of the community. They don't come to conferences, they don't sit on this
> > list, they don't go to user groups. They work with PHP for months or
> years,
> > but the rest of the "community" doesn't even know who they are. I believe
> > Rasmus has mentioned this on a few occasions.
> >
> > So my suggestion is simple, let's ask them: What they want, What they
> need,
> > how they installed PHP (source, rpm, deb, provided by hosting provider,
> > Zend Server), etc. Let's create a survey, and link to it prominently on
> > php.net. I considered just writing a survey myself, but even if
> everyone I
> > knew tweeted it I'd still lack the reach to hit those outside the
> > traditional community.
> >
> >
> > While this is clearly not a suggestion to change PHP, i'll write this up
> in
> > RFC format if there's interest. Should give people an opportunity to
> > discuss questions and such.
> >
> >
> > thanks for your time
> > paul
> >
> >
> > --
> > Paul Reinheimer
>
> Thank you for championing this. I've been promoting this kind of
> feedback for a while now.
>
> Just like the discussion I've had earlier on the IRC channel, I do
> believe that when proposals are made/are at a point where the
> internals don't agree with which solution is better and it should
> affect the community at large, it would be better to just ask the
> community and see what they want/agree on. The issue would
> be that in some cases one side would lose but the same thing
> happens when the debate is done here, on the mailing list, and
> a solution doesn't satisfy some people and ends up being the
> standard for the whole community.
>
> These votes shouldn't be seen as a must but should serve more
> as a guideline.
>
> As for the problems raised by Kris, I think that a simple system
> based on the e-mail address of the voter with some prior
> confirmation / pending approval, like for the mailing lists, should
> be enough to grant the right to vote or not. Even if some people
> were to have multiple accounts, I don't think they'd go to the
> trouble of spawning a very large number of e-mail addresses just
> to see their favorite option accepted.
>
> I'd be more that happy to provide any help possible for the RFC
> as well as the survey / surveys themselves.
>
>
>
> Best regards.
> ----
> Florin Patan
> https://github.com/dlsniper
>
> --
> PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List
> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
>
>
Agreed on all of your points, Florin.  Perhaps the three of us can make
this a collaborative effort if everyone's willing.

--Kris

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