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Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2013 12:16:42 -0800
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To: Rasmus Lerdorf <rasmus@lerdorf.com>
Cc: "internals@lists.php.net" <internals@lists.php.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Proposal for serious BC compatibility aka language versioning
From: karoly@negyesi.net (Karoly Negyesi)

> Yup, so please test it against 5.5 now. Have you done so? It is rather
> trivial to do. Grab it from git or there is a tarball at http://qa.php.net

>> Let me describe my world. I am working on an open source package. So
>> does another 1000 or so developers. And another 10 000 adds modules
>> (or maybe you'd call them plugins). I do not even know how many then
>> adds custom, site specific code. This whole pile of software forms an

Care to explain how am I supposed to test all that against 5.5?
Obviously you'd need every project owner doing this but they won't
because their hosts are not even on 5.4 so why would they even think
of 5.5? (5.4? A lot of people are on 5.2.)

> Yes, I would say it is unattainable. You are essentially asking that we
> don't make any changes.

Where did I say that?

> Nothing that could possibly affect existing code
> down to and including any potential warning messages even if that code
> is obviously incorrect, insecure and/or not doing what the developer
> intended. That means no new keywords, no new notices, no bug fixes. What
> exactly can we do in a new version then?

new keywords is an interesting discussion to have -- it's actually the
first real thing to discuss as far as I can see. For example that is
something that version strings would tremendously help. You do not
need to maintain the whole lot of behaviors for every version just the
parser? Also, new keywords typically introduce new syntax. Here's an
example, a quick github code search found
https://github.com/chriso/klein.php/blob/master/klein.php#L600 this.
function yield() is not a valid usage of the new yield keyword nor is
yield() so perhaps it's not impossible to accomodate this kind of
code? Let's discuss.

New error messages could be INI controlled to avoid surprises.

Why no bugfixes? Absolutely yes to bugfixes -- once again if a piece
was not running before then that running in a new version is breaking
*forward* not backwards compatbility. If a bugfix changes behavior,
then again, that needs discussion, do you have any good examples? I am
not familiar enough with the bugs to say "here's a bugfix which made
foo(NULL) return NULL instead of FALSE" or somesuch.

Best,

Karoly Negyesi