Newsgroups: php.internals Path: news.php.net Xref: news.php.net php.internals:64796 Return-Path: Mailing-List: contact internals-help@lists.php.net; run by ezmlm Delivered-To: mailing list internals@lists.php.net Received: (qmail 68714 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2013 02:28:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO lists.php.net) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 10 Jan 2013 02:28:47 -0000 Authentication-Results: pb1.pair.com smtp.mail=adam@adamharvey.name; spf=pass; sender-id=pass Authentication-Results: pb1.pair.com header.from=adam@adamharvey.name; sender-id=pass Received-SPF: pass (pb1.pair.com: domain adamharvey.name designates 209.85.223.171 as permitted sender) X-PHP-List-Original-Sender: adam@adamharvey.name X-Host-Fingerprint: 209.85.223.171 mail-ie0-f171.google.com Received: from [209.85.223.171] ([209.85.223.171:41785] helo=mail-ie0-f171.google.com) by pb1.pair.com (ecelerity 2.1.1.9-wez r(12769M)) with ESMTP id 33/4F-02684-E572EE05 for ; Wed, 09 Jan 2013 21:28:46 -0500 Received: by mail-ie0-f171.google.com with SMTP id 17so71620iea.16 for ; Wed, 09 Jan 2013 18:28:44 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=adamharvey.name; s=google; h=x-received:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=rEXj3SqcWSH4o6h6HSomh1qV5GIo67UrWzWUmNOTG40=; b=rLEZhCMu9EK1wR0UM1DJD2mIJ8sFFWJLnc4Ol/ODMKG3MgOiXej2+3VaYHF4+cojCM l7R+od7sOP9IMtgqX5yjBYMkavXORp12VjYao58i9pVe2khQsVYi6nvY+oSiRnRXdwHo WrCvp0yBDb1JMjOiwgDVkdZuOEMUz8nUb1ktM= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:x-gm-message-state; bh=rEXj3SqcWSH4o6h6HSomh1qV5GIo67UrWzWUmNOTG40=; b=Q+2GYVLTzDoW5Oy/7Zyg4BqD0Cf6PqgSm153LDKtvGB6Pj/Faqrh6qfiQYvSxkXzGj MEh3NOfvbC8Tfc/vHNv1i6PaVPMFbQE4juqYqtNJkubFqnvT5Vy9Uq7/xr3o3gZpNcl2 J1v8NGk064C7suNXVaDfc6yUQCzLGJnEXSdNAxU17LhNqjvo27oPDoXr6/nwP1ug1yja hKX7AA4n5IXLIfYNDIrxoBcPJRYwLyYBSqeHTrRw5JUfhHWifx4fatTXPJxwixt1lVGh 9DOwiVWWylOhCJo+Yaxs/iFaQEDSfKVk4Qc4xHmQilOQcgPLGFp2q6lB1M6Y2VVuXi8n XzKw== X-Received: by 10.50.184.232 with SMTP id ex8mr3624957igc.30.1357784923953; Wed, 09 Jan 2013 18:28:43 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: adam@adamharvey.name Received: by 10.43.132.193 with HTTP; Wed, 9 Jan 2013 18:28:23 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 10:28:23 +0800 X-Google-Sender-Auth: UUN15iX1oMvLq62eBCeBMvWRQ2U Message-ID: To: Tyler Sommer Cc: "internals@lists.php.net" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmmBKU7mSO3AF6EPH8dZxz8ldv4F0wDbViBAzyHAnoLYak1lm/ff3tJtkhenAC6WzZhYylX Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Was Reflection annotations reader - We Need A Vision From: aharvey@php.net (Adam Harvey) On 10 January 2013 10:05, Tyler Sommer wrote: > Annotations are already a part of PHP. They are widely used in one of the > most prolific frameworks, Symfony, and it's ORM "counterpart" Doctrine. To explain what I meant by "PHP", since I think we're arguing semantics there: I mean php-src specifically, rather than the broader userland community, since we're on Internals. > To say "they shouldn't be part of PHP" is fine, but it's too late for tha= t. > Annotations are already here. Are we going to just ignore this fact and h= old > back what a very significant portion of the community wants to see becaus= e > it conflicts with some ambiguous master plan for PHP? I don't have a master plan (that would be the part of this thread I'm not touching), but if it's a poorly thought out feature, sure. Pretty much every major project out there uses a unit testing framework and ORM: does that mean we should also be including equivalents for PHPUnit and Doctrine in core? Basically, I think the trend towards configuration as behaviour is an antipattern that results in less readable, harder to debug code. Having said that, the beauty of our userland being a set of communities is that each community can make their own decisions =E2=80=94 since the good folks behind Doctrine have written an excellent annotation parser, those who want to go that way can, but it doesn't mean PHP has to go out of its way to encourage it. Or, to put it another way, not everything has to be a language feature. That way lies Perl. Adam